Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

The alternative being annihilation.

[Kikapu]

The alternative being annihilation.

It's no longer the alternative of being annihilated, is it VP, because it is the reality for the TCs in the north today.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The alternative being annihilation.

Yawn.

[Viewpoint]

The alternative being annihilation.

It's no longer the alternative of being annihilated, is it VP, because it is the reality for the TCs in the north today.

Kikapu what more can I say you are just being bloody minded for the sake of it......I have said this time and time again yet you need to read it once more...we can move south tomorrow, why do you think that is that we dont????? I do not want to live as a minority amongst GCs just for the same reason that I no longer wanted to live as a minority amongst the Brits, although I love the UK. Why do you want to deny me this right....I would much rather live in the TRNC with all its flaws than move south...when will you understand this??? before you spout the same rhetoric this has nothing to with land or money.

[SKI-preo]

The alternative being annihilation.

It's no longer the alternative of being annihilated, is it VP, because it is the reality for the TCs in the north today.

Kikapu what more can I say you are just being bloody minded for the sake of it......I have said this time and time again yet you need to read it once more...we can move south tomorrow, why do you think that is that we dont????? I do not want to live as a minority amongst GCs just for the same reason that I no longer wanted to live as a minority amongst the Brits, although I love the UK. Why do you want to deny me this right....I would much rather live in the TRNC with all its flaws than move south...when will you understand this??? before you spout the same rhetoric this has nothing to with land or money.

Pure evil. You will live on top of corpses and rapes to manufacture the situation so you feel you are not living as an ethnic minority. Are you 100% human?

[Kikapu]

The alternative being annihilation.

It's no longer the alternative of being annihilated, is it VP, because it is the reality for the TCs in the north today.

Kikapu what more can I say you are just being bloody minded for the sake of it......I have said this time and time again yet you need to read it once more...we can move south tomorrow, why do you think that is that we dont?????

Because it is not practical for the TCs to move to the south in large numbers before there is a settlement, and the reasons has nothing to do with majority/minority issues, since people in real life are more concern with jobs, education for their kids, financial stability and Rule of Law than silly politics about majority/minority. Mostly they care about equality under the law and that the laws are for everyone without unfair treatment of anyone regardless of ones race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation and that ALL opportunities are open to anyone who wish to have them. This is what real life is. Therefore, when TC families have their lives in the north where their jobs are, schools for their children, friends and family, they cannot just pack up and go freely even if they wanted, due to the political situation. It has nothing to do with personal safety. That has been definitely proven over the last 8 years when the TCs started going to the south on regular bases for all sorts of reasons, despite 30+ years of brainwashing by Denktash and Turkey on the TCs before the crossings opened in 2003. We can put the question of security to bed for good. You cannot make any arguments and back them up to say that it is dangerous for the TCs to be living in the south. There are none.

I do not want to live as a minority amongst GCs just for the same reason that I no longer wanted to live as a minority amongst the Brits, although I love the UK. Why do you want to deny me this right

The TCs are a numerical minority, a fact, but they are no less equal than anyone else, so I don't get this fixation that someone who is a numerical minority would have any less rights than a someone who is in the numerical majority group, specially in a EU state, Cyprus. If you think a numerical minority should have a 50-50 power in the form of "partnership" with the numerical majority in the government, then surely any minority in Cyprus should also have an equal power sharing with the majority regardless of their size. Would you agree with this or do you think only the numerical minority TCs deserve a 50-50 power share, despite the TCs being ONLY 1/8th of the GC population today in Cyprus? I have given you example how there can be a 50-50 power share in a Federation by each state being equal to each other in the upper house, but this does not make it a "partnership" at all, but a Democratic progress. The kind of "partnership" you are talking about is design to bring about partition as simple as one "partner" saying to the other, "I want a divorce"! Such "partnership" cannot be accepted by any Cypriot who want to live within the EU Principles as equal citizens.

I would much rather live in the TRNC with all its flaws than move south...

Well, you are living in the "trnc" with all it's faults, but you are also complaining like hell about isolation and embargoes. You know that there is a political price to be paid when one declares independent state within a state, so just continue living in the "trnc" as you are, but you should also accept, that you are holding other citizens properties and denying them their Human Rights with the help of an outside occupying power, Turkey, in which case, you need to expect and even accept that life in the "trnc" will be made difficult for you. You cannot complain about you are being denied commercial and political rights when you are being denied these rights as a result of you denying others their Human Rights.

when will you understand this???

I understand full well and is explained above.

before you spout the same rhetoric this has nothing to with land or money.

Well, unfortunately land and money, and mostly Haram money I may add, does play a big part, but lets just say for sake of argument I'm willing to leave the land and money question out of this discussion, can you honestly tell me that the reasons as to why the TCs are not moving to the south in large numbers now are because of they are a numerical minority to the GCs or that their security is in jeopardy? Lets get an honest answer from you on this if we can.

[Viewpoint]

The alternative being annihilation.

It's no longer the alternative of being annihilated, is it VP, because it is the reality for the TCs in the north today.

Kikapu what more can I say you are just being bloody minded for the sake of it......I have said this time and time again yet you need to read it once more...we can move south tomorrow, why do you think that is that we dont????? I do not want to live as a minority amongst GCs just for the same reason that I no longer wanted to live as a minority amongst the Brits, although I love the UK. Why do you want to deny me this right....I would much rather live in the TRNC with all its flaws than move south...when will you understand this??? before you spout the same rhetoric this has nothing to with land or money.

Pure evil. You will live on top of corpses and rapes to manufacture the situation so you feel you are not living as an ethnic minority. Are you 100% human?

Try English next time so we can all understand.

[boulio]

the funny thing kikapu is that if the t/c even if they were the minority within a unitary state and all voted for one party say the CTP THEY WOULD BE ANYWERE FORM 18-20% OF THE ELECTORATE,which we all now in cypriot politics they would be a kingmaker in any future govts,and being alot better off even in a bbf befause of the influence of turkey and her settlers.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

Because it is not practical for the TCs to move to the south in large numbers before there is a settlement, and the reasons has nothing to do with majority/minority issues, since people in real life are more concern with jobs, education for their kids, financial stability and Rule of Law than silly politics about majority/minority. Mostly they care about equality under the law and that the laws are for everyone without unfair treatment of anyone regardless of ones race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation and that ALL opportunities are open to anyone who wish to have them. This is what real life is. Therefore, when TC families have their lives in the north where their jobs are, schools for their children, friends and family, they cannot just pack up and go freely even if they wanted, due to the political situation. It has nothing to do with personal safety. That has been definitely proven over the last 8 years when the TCs started going to the south on regular bases for all sorts of reasons, despite 30+ years of brainwashing by Denktash and Turkey on the TCs before the crossings opened in 2003. We can put the question of security to bed for good. You cannot make any arguments and back them up to say that it is dangerous for the TCs to be living in the south. There are none.

Wow what a response, there is a lot in what you say but the the bottom line is that TC can move south tomorrow to what you claim is the promised land but the south to TCs is like any foreign land, moving to Spain or Italy would mean the same challenges add to this the animosity, deep rooted hate towards TCs and the attitude of the GC administration towards TCs amounts to the fear I refer to. Get rid of the TA which you demand and this fear increases 100 fold. You are free to go live on the south but you have no right to force me to do the same without security guarantees.

The TCs are a numerical minority, a fact, but they are no less equal than anyone else, so I don't get this fixation that someone who is a numerical minority would have any less rights than a someone who is in the numerical majority group, specially in a EU state, Cyprus. If you think a numerical minority should have a 50-50 power in the form of "partnership" with the numerical majority in the government, then surely any minority in Cyprus should also have an equal power sharing with the majority regardless of their size. Would you agree with this or do you think only the numerical minority TCs deserve a 50-50 power share, despite the TCs being ONLY 1/8th of the GC population today in Cyprus? I have given you example how there can be a 50-50 power share in a Federation by each state being equal to each other in the upper house, but this does not make it a "partnership" at all, but a Democratic progress. The kind of "partnership" you are talking about is design to bring about partition as simple as one "partner" saying to the other, "I want a divorce"! Such "partnership" cannot be accepted by any Cypriot who want to live within the EU Principles as equal citizens.

Start to think of us as equal partners in that we will be two states, you plan could have been acceptable except for the sell out element that would expose us to the great risk of being pushed aside once again, that would take us all back to square one.

Well, you are living in the "trnc" with all it's faults, but you are also complaining like hell about isolation and embargoes. You know that there is a political price to be paid when one declares independent state within a state, so just continue living in the "trnc" as you are, but you should also accept, that you are holding other citizens properties and denying them their Human Rights with the help of an outside occupying power, Turkey, in which case, you need to expect and even accept that life in the "trnc" will be made difficult for you. You cannot complain about you are being denied commercial and political rights when you are being denied these rights as a result of you denying others their Human Rights.

As I stated before I am happy to live on the TRNC with all its flaws but thos does not mean I would not strive for things to be better, this is the same as anyone else in the world.

Well, unfortunately land and money, and mostly Haram money I may add, does play a big part, but lets just say for sake of argument I'm willing to leave the land and money question out of this discussion, can you honestly tell me that the reasons as to why the TCs are not moving to the south in large numbers now are because of they are a numerical minority to the GCs or that their security is in jeopardy? Lets get an honest answer from you on this if we can.

Definitely talk to TCs from the TRNC and you will soon find out that I am right.....like me they do not want to be a minority amongst GCs and do not feel 100% safe.

[Viewpoint]

the funny thing kikapu is that if the t/c even if they were the minority within a unitary state and all voted for one party say the CTP THEY WOULD BE ANYWERE FORM 18-20% OF THE ELECTORATE,which we all now in cypriot politics they would be a kingmaker in any future govts,and being alot better off even in a bbf befause of the influence of turkey and her settlers.

82% vs 18% no chance no say just what you want.