Cyprus-Forum.com

[bg_turk]

ok cyprezokyli,

for the sake of not annoying you any further I will remove the posts from my signature as well.

But just wanted to add my last observatoin on the issue...
No other countries but Greece and Cyprus object to the name Republic of Macedonia, and in fact around 100 state in the world: Bulgaria, Russia, China, Slovenia, Albania, Turkey, USA, German Bundestag, Serbia and Monte Negro, etc, have recognized the RoM by its constitutional name. What does it matter if you accept it or not.
It is always better to accept defeat in a noble way, rather than protracting the issue when it is increasingly clear that the policy is failing. Greece and Cyprus will become increasingly isolated in their attitude towards the RoM, while your patriotic politicians will be capitalizing on nationalism and how tough they are against the tiny Republic of Macedonia. Nationalism and shauvinism have done no country good, they are simply the symptoms of a strong inferiority complex.

[bg_turk]

"Ο Φίλιππος είναι βάρβαρος, δεν είναι Ελληνας και δεν έχει καμμία σχέση με την φυλή των Ελλήνων"

Δημοσθένης: 3η ομιλία κατά του βασιλέως της Μακεδονίας

[bg_turk]

[Tony-4497]

bg-turk

There is no coutnry in the entire world but Greece that would refuse to recognize, impose economic embargoes and actively lobby against a country just because of its name. I know of no single precedent to this in the entire human history.

And how many precedents in the entire world and the entire human history do you know where a country decided to one day start calling itself with the name of the largest province of a neighbouring country as well as stating territorial claims and having these taught at schools???

It would indeed be interesting to see what happens when the Republic of Kurdistan is set up in the area of what is now known as Iraq. I'm sure Turkey will have excellent relations with its new neighbour..

As I said, Slavs in FYROM are bloody lucky to have to deal with a weak and balls-less Greece..

[bg_turk]

And how many precedents in the entire world and the entire human history do you know where a country decided to one day start calling itself with the name of the largest province of a neighbouring country as well as stating territorial claims and having these taught at schools???

Macedonia did not start this "all of a sudden". It used to do it even when it was part of Yugoslavia. After its independence some Greek politicians started to make an issue of it. Some say politicians simply tried to expoit nationalism to earn more votes, and as far as I can see they have managed to make a national issue of such a trivial matter as the name of a country.

It would indeed be interesting to see what happens when the Republic of Kurdistan is set up in the area of what is now known as Iraq. I'm sure Turkey will have excellent relations with its new neighbour..

It would be very interesting to see what will happen indeed. As things turn up the kurds will have some kind of a federal government in the north and it would be very interesting to see how they will call their country and what their relationship with Turkey will be. While Turkey may be hostile to such a state, I do not believe any problems with the name will arise. If Kurds wish to call their country Kurdistan, then ideally this should not bother Turkey as such a region is officially not recognized by the turkish state.

As I said, Slavs in FYROM are bloody lucky to have to deal with a weak and balls-less Greece..

We are all lucky to have the superbalkan nation greece as our nieghbour.

[Main_Source]

'Super Balkan nation'?...wtf? did you just imagine that up? or are you trying to paint a picture of Greece being the big bad nation? lol... another one cluthcing at straws.

[cypezokyli]

hey bg_turk thanks for removing the poster. even though ellas i tefra came up with another annoying one
see what i mean ? its like newtons first law of motion.. every action has an equal and opposite reaction

i really dont know what is between u and greece. honestly. u participate or started threads of human rights in greece,of whether greece should be a member of the EU, the macedonian name... imagine and this a cyprus forum.
u should try to meet some greeks abroad. in a neutral environment. perhaps it will help. or get a greek girlfriend

It is always better to accept defeat in a noble way, rather than protracting the issue when it is increasingly clear that the policy is failing. Greece and Cyprus will become increasingly isolated in their attitude towards the RoM, while your patriotic politicians will be capitalizing on nationalism and how tough they are against the tiny Republic of Macedonia. Nationalism and shauvinism have done no country good, they are simply the symptoms of a strong inferiority complex.

france and england had also a whole problem about names. which if i am not mistaken was a reason for the french "no" to britain for its accession in the EEC back in the 70s.

the policy of greece could be failing. will see in the future...
for me as i said before i dont really care if they call it macedonia. the people already use that name also abroad. u can find it also in wines and all kinds of other products. the thing is that there are also products in greece which carry the name "macedonian whatever", there organisation of macedonian music and dances and there they need a solution.

as for the history is concerned there is no answer to it, that is on who is the ancestor of the ancient macedonians. as if it matters. as if history has always been a straight line with no changes. the geographical place called macedonia after byzantium and ottoman empire became so multicultural that in trying to search for "pure" nation would be absurd. thessaloniki had turks jews greeks bulgarians serbs armenians etc( the fact that today is just greeks, it is simply bc it was given to greece after signed treaties. i dont believe that it would have stayed multicultural if it was under turky bulgaria or serbia) some people like vlahoi wanted recently to make a school in greece and learn their own language. others like the carakatjans were divided in greece and bulgaria. if they were strong enough they could also create a nation after the collapse of the ottoman empire.

in any case nations need history and need to be proud of their past (rightly or wrongly). there are always going to be historians or linguists who will be willing to do that.
so the greeks will continue to view ancient macedonians as greeks
the FYROMians will continue to claim them as their own
and bulgarians will caninue viewing the macedonians as just bulgarians that were given to yugaslavia.

as for the defeat and noble acceptance... it is politics and a clear defeat is not easy to accept. if the goeverment of fyrom proves clever it will try to avoid putting oil on the wound if they win the name. it doesnt matter if they are right or wrong. i thing it is to their benefit to have greece as an ally rather as an enemy. and that goes for all neighbouring countries. its like what i say about the british bases here. nobody finds it right, but since they are there here with our signiture, since we have a bigger problem to deal now, and since most of our tourists came from england what is the point now of discussing about the british bases? the same works for macedonia i would say. a country divided between albanians and slavs, with no access to the sea and with greece being a heavy investor, it would just not be wise to try to provoke just for the feeling good about it. thats why i believe all kinds of provoking posters just make the problem bigger.
but i guess sometimes a victory abroad makes the people forget of their everyday problems..which macedonians i am afraid already have a lot

[bg_turk]

in any case nations need history and need to be proud of their past (rightly or wrongly). there are always going to be historians or linguists who will be willing to do that.
so the greeks will continue to view ancient macedonians as greeks
the FYROMians will continue to claim them as their own
and bulgarians will caninue viewing the macedonians as just bulgarians that were given to yugaslavia.

cyprezokyli, I do not agree that we need to be proud of our history. Only people who have nothing else to be proud of, are proud of their nationality. My approach to hisotry would be a neutral one and I want a single unified history of the whole Balkans, rather than one focusing on creating national pride.
You are right about bulgarians not recognizing the macedonian identity and macedonian language, and that is something that I do not agree with. In the past I have talked to many macedonians, trying to convince them that they are actually bulgarians, but all was in vain, and I now I realize all of this was really premature of me and it is something that I regret. I think everybody should be free to define themselves as they wish.

as for the defeat and noble acceptance... it is politics and a clear defeat is not easy to accept. if the goeverment of fyrom proves clever it will try to avoid putting oil on the wound if they win the name. it doesnt matter if they are right or wrong. i thing it is to their benefit to have greece as an ally rather as an enemy. and that goes for all neighbouring countries. its like what i say about the british bases here. nobody finds it right, but since they are there here with our signiture, since we have a bigger problem to deal now, and since most of our tourists came from england what is the point now of discussing about the british bases? the same works for macedonia i would say. a country divided between albanians and slavs, with no access to the sea and with greece being a heavy investor, it would just not be wise to try to provoke just for the feeling good about it. thats why i believe all kinds of provoking posters just make the problem bigger.
but i guess sometimes a victory abroad makes the people forget of their everyday problems..which macedonians i am afraid already have a lot

To be honest I do not care how macedonians call themselves. I want greece to respect the rights of its slavic minority and not to obstruct the development of slavic macedonia. If this is possible, then the name is the most trivial matter and can be easily resolved. But even now Greece invests heavily in nationalism, shauvinism and oppression of minorities, which I am strongly against. Hopefully we will one day have a Balkan peninsul free of nationalism. Nationalism is very dangerous, we all saw what kind of things it may lead to in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Thank you for your constructive attitude, I appreciate your input and respect your opinion.

[cypezokyli]

Thank you for your constructive attitude, I appreciate your input and respect your opinion.

thanks bg_turk... me too... when it is not posters

cyprezokyli, I do not agree that we need to be proud of our history. Only people who have nothing else to be proud of, are proud of their nationality. My approach to hisotry would be a neutral one and I want a single unified history of the whole Balkans, rather than one focusing on creating national pride.

i didnt say they should...i guess thats the way it is.

neutral history doesnt exists in my opinion.

the problem is that in the process of nationl pride it gets to hate the others, and thats what i dont like.

Nationalism is very dangerous, we all saw what kind of things it may lead to in Bosnia and Kosovo.

i couldnt agree more

[ProudToBeGreek]

What, you mean the nationalism of the Albanians in Kosovo who had been killing innocent Serbs for years pre-1989?

Funny how you agree with the Turkish 'Peace Operation' to protect a minority, even though it killed and displaced far more innocents than what happened to The Kosovans even though they had a group, KLA, murdering thousands.