Kifeas,
What is it that you want to say? Are you claiming that the national borders of the all the today’s Balkan states should be reshaped in favour of the establishment of a greater Macedonian state, along the entire territory of what used to be the historical Macedonia?
No! I simply want Greece to respect the rights of its slavic minority and stop violating RoM right to call itself whatever it wants. Hopefully the ECHR will pressure Greece to respect the rights of its minorities as in the case of
OURANIO TOXO AND OTHERS v. GREECE There were no Greeks that during those wars have been forced to move into Greece by the Bulgarian and Serbian nationalists? I know entire towns and villages situated in what today is part of Bulgaria that were also forced to south and into Greece.
Of course there were some greeks that were forced to move, but definintely not on the same magnitude. I have actually been very interested to learn about greeks who lived in Bulgaria, and I was speaking to one bulgarian-speaking greek recently to learn about his perspective. He now lives in northern greece, and his animosity towards bulgaria was because of the actions of the bulgarian army in northern greece during the second world war, not because a great number of greeks were ethnically cleansed. Basically no large scale greek movement occured during and after the Balkan wars. There were not many greek towns, only a few small communities along the balck sea. When I was on the seasaide this summer I talked to one old Bulgarian lady and she told me that the greeks in Ahtopol and some other black sea resorts who had left after the first balkan war.
But this is not nearly on the same scale as the crimes committed by deportations and cleansing comitted by the greek state.
The fact of the matter is that in what used to be the area of historical Macedonia there was no homogenous population with one commonly shared ethnic identity. It was a mixture of various people. As a result of the emerging collapse of the Ottoman empire, those countries whose populations where more homogenous and they had a more developed and cohesive national base, rushed into the areas of what we call Macedonia in order to gain advantage, claiming historical rights but also because they had people of their own kin in those territories. This is true for the Greeks as much as it is true for the Bulgarians as well as the Serbs. The end result is what we have today. Should Macedonians, or better all the people that used to live under the areas that we call historical Macedonia, had a single and separate national identity their own and perhaps have revolted against the ottomans in a unifying manner and with the aim of establishing their own separate Macedonian state, like the Greeks and the Bulgarians had, then most likely the situation on the map today would have been different. The case was not so. There was no such thing like a common unifying Macedonian national consciousness that was shared by all or even the majority of the people living in its territories.
Thank you for at least acknoledging that macedonia is not exclusively greek. WHy doesnt modern greece accept the mutliethnic heritage of the region, and tries to violate the rights of its minorities?
Today, all these countries recognise and respect each others borders. Bulgaria and Greece, likewise Serbia and Greece, have the best of relationships. The same can be said with the country claiming to represent the entire Macedonia people and which is for the moment recognised by the UN with the name FYROM. Greece doesn't claim any of its territories, as far as I know. I am not sure about the opposite though.
Whatever the history is and whatever is the way you interpret it, it is a fact that the Macedonian nation and ethnicity are reality in todays world and the name "Macedonians" is the only name they identify with (A name supported by every goverment (except Greece and Cyprus), international organizations, encyclopedias etc. Macedonia never asked Greece to change the name of its northern province. Macedonia never asked Greeks to stop using the name Macedonia. Greece was the one who started all the problem.
Are you pumping all these information in the forum, in order to suggest that there should be a border re-definition of the entire region, 90 years after this has been determined and that all countries have moved on with their lives? What is it that you want to prove? I fail to grasp your arguments.
There is a problem with the name. This is true. I gave you some arguments reflecting Greece position on this matter. Why you do not comment on them and instead you keep pumping maps and slogans for something that there is no way we can reverse today but can only feel sorry and which occurred one century ago?
I pumped those maps for those who denied that greece had comitted ethic clansing over the region. There will be no border redefinition in the Balkans. In fact if it were in my power i would opt for all borders to be dropped. I am simply against the extreme nationalism and shuvinism that the greek state is promoting over the issue that is all.
