Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

why dont u just help the guy to his homework.

not everything has to turn in politics

[Nicephorus_Phocas]

Facts about Macedonia being Greek:

- Macedonians spoke the Greek language:

Every single piece of Macedonian Archeological Find found has been in the a Northern dialect of Ancient Greek. It was their natural tongue. There is no historic evidence to suggest that the Macedonians were using a different language.

- Macedonians had Greek Names:

All the ancient Macedonian names mentioned in history or found on tombs are Greek. All the kings of Ancient Macedonia had Greek names. Nobody discovered ancient Macedonian names ending to -ov or -ovski or whatever.

Alexander's name is Greek. The word "Alexandros" is produced from the prefix alex(=protector) and the word andros(=man) meaning "he who protects men". The prefix "alex" can be found in many Greek words today (alexiptoto=parachute, alexisfairo=bulletproof - all these words have the meaning of protetion).

Philip's name is also Greek. It is produced from the prefix Philo(=friendly to something) and the word ippos(=horse) meaning the man who is friendly to horses. The prefix "philo" and the word "ippos" are also found in many words of Greek origin today (philosophy,philology, hippodrome,hippocampus).

- Macedonian architecture was similar to the Greek architecture.

All the buldings found in the Macedonia region have many common characteristics with the ones found in the rest of Greece. Palaces, temples, theaters markets are characteristic sampes of ancient Greek architecture.

- Macedonians fought together with the rest of the Greeks.

Macedonians regularly fought with other Greeks in defence of Delian League Colonies, or in defence against enemies from Asia.

- Macedonians took part in the Olympic games.

It is well known then ONLY Greeks were allowed to take part in the ancient Olympic games. Macedonians who competed in the Olympic Games:

- Theagenes
- Tellon
- Archelaos
- Xenophon
- Philip II
- Kliton
- Damasias
- Lampos
- Antigonos
- Belestichos
- Seleukos
- Belestichos
- Diephilos


- Macedonians celebrated the same festivals as the rest of the Greeks.
Examples of festivals which were celebrated in Macedonia as well as in other Greek states are the "Hetaireidia", the "Apellaia" and many more.

- Macedonians worshiped the same Gods as the rest of the Greeks.

Several temples dedicated to the Greek Gods have beem discovered in Macedonia and especially in Dion the religious center of ancient Macedonians. It is obvious that the Macedonias worshiped the 12 Olympian Gods as the rest of the Greeks. The Gods were "living" on Mount Olympos which happens to be located in Macedonia. How would that be possible if there was hostility between Macedonians and Greeks? This is another proof that Macedonia was considered a part of Greece.

Herodotus confirms that the Macedonians were people of Greek origin (Histories of Herodotus Book 5, paragraph 22.1)

"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history.That they are so has been already adjudged by those who manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia. "

And later on (Book 8, paragraph 137.1) he verifies it:

"This Alexander was seventh in descent from Perdiccas, who got for himself the tyranny of Macedonia in the way that I will show. Three brothers of the lineage of Temenus came as banished men from Argos to Illyria, Gauanes and Aeropus and Perdiccas; and from Illyria they crossed over into the highlands of Macedonia till they came to the town Lebaea."

Also in the very first book of his "Histories" (paragraph 56.3 ) Herodotus states about the origin of the the Greek people :

"For in the days of king Deucalion it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen; driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about Pindus in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the name of Dorian."

Thoukididis also verifies that the Macedonian kings' origin was from the Greek town of Argos (Book 2, 99.3):

"The country on the sea coast, now called Macedonia, was first acquired by Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his ancestors, originally Temenids from Argos."

Aristotelis, the teacher of Alexander the Great says about the rivers in Macedonia (Meteorologika, Book I, Par. 13):

"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope."

Finally Isocratis states (To Philip, paragraph 32):

"Argos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled to as much consideration at your hands as are your own ancestors;"

Macedonia = Greek

[Dirigent]

So u think that u r smart or u r greek!?
who`s not a greek is a barbarian!a!!
good morning Demosten and yours 10th Phillipiki`s!
Filip II is a barbarian! -told Demosten
after that comes Alexandar and told to all macedonians- I want to see the Greeks under my legs and how they pray to me!
and that hapends at Hayroneya

nice to meet u
u r very boring nation (i meen the greeks)

[Kifeas]

So u think that u r smart or u r greek!?
who`s not a greek is a barbarian!a!!
good morning Demosten and yours 10th Phillipiki`s!
Filip II is a barbarian! -told Demosten
after that comes Alexandar and told to all macedonians- I want to see the Greeks under my legs and how they pray to me!
and that hapends at Hayroneya

nice to meet u
u r very boring nation (i meen the greeks)

It has not been established with an absolute degree of certainty that the ancient Macedonians where just another one of the many Greek tribes that settled in the south Balkans, Asia Minor and eastern Mediterranean. There is a huge amount of evidence suggesting that they were such a people. There is also some evidence, far less than the one suggesting the above, suggesting that they were only a cousin people (certainly a non distant one) of the other Greek tribes.

The truth of the matter though is that ancient Macedonians were an overwhelmingly hellenised group of people. Their names, their traditions, their worshipping gods, their mythology and their associations suggest only that. They had a spoken dialect, which resembled in many ways to other Greek dialects of the time, but in many other ways it sounded different. Their written language however was a form of ancient Greek, like the other Greek tribes. It is a fact that although they could perfectly understand the rest of the Greeks when they spoke among themselves, the rests of the Greeks would have had much more difficulty understanding them when they would speak among themselves.

A similar analogy, although not so strong like that of the ancient Macedonians, can be made with the case of the ancient Trojans.

The fact that in many cases they fought against each other, means absolutely nothing. Spartans fought against Athenians, Athenians fought against Thebans, etc, etc. In those times the concept of a Nation-state, as we find it later in the middle ages, was non-existent. Instead we had city-states and /or kingdoms formed around the concept of city-states.

The fact that they might have been called Barbarians by some (not all) of the ancient Greek historians, also doesn’t suggest much. The term Barbarian, as it was used by the ancient Greeks, was attributed to all those that spoke another language (non-Greeks) but also to all those that spoke a not so purified and understandable Greek dialect, mainly to the Athenian Greeks. The term “barbarian” etymologically comes from a constant sound of “bar-bar-bar,” which denotes how a non-understandable language sounded in the ears of ancient Athenians. It is only later that the term “barbarians” was associated with the description of people who were backward and /or primitive.

On the other hand, the fact that ancient Macedonians were permitted to participate in the ancient Olympics, something which could only be allowed to Greeks from all the city/states/Kingdoms of the Mediterranean and Black sea regions, suggests that they were regarded and treated in many ways as just another Greek tribe, something which the ancient Macedonians themselves had no problem accepting, irrespective of the possible existence of any prejudices towards them.

Nevertheless, to suggest that the ancient Macedonians were a Slavic people and /or of Slavic origin, or that they had any relationship whatsoever with other Slavic tribes, is more than a joke to say the least.

[Alexis]

Sure, the ancient Macedonians were certainly Greek, no question there.
The definitive argument here is language. Remember that at the time, as Kifeas also points out, Greece was split into tribes (there was also a Cypriot tribe conquered by the Persians), and the Macedonians were just another such tribe, perhaps less connected to the main Peleponese tribes but nevertheless a tribe which spoke Greek, i.e. a Greek tribe.
I'm sure Alexander did say he wanted to see the Greeks pray to him, that doesn't mean he did not class himself also as a Greek. Fighting amongst the Greek tribes/nations was commonplace at the time as was intermarriage.

However, the people who have made up the majority over the last 1000
years were of mainly Slavic descent. The region also hosts Albanians (+ other muslims), Serbs and Bulgarians, as well as the original Greeks.
Independent census' made just before the Balkan Wars put the Greek
percentage of population at around 15% (over the whole of Macedonia, including the present Greek and Bulgarian parts).

What is important to remember is that at the time, the Ottomans had abolished the church of Macedonia, so the slavic Macedonians had a choice of affiliating with either the Greeks, Bulgarians or Serbians. The independent surveys took this into account whilst those commissioned by Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia and even the Ottomans did not.
No one knows for sure what the populations were at the time, much of Greek Macedonia was involved in the population exchange of 1923 and was used to accomodate many of the Asia Minor Greeks in exchange for the Macedonian muslims.

So as you can see Macedonia is a very complex issue.

[gus]

So u think that u r smart or u r greek!?
who`s not a greek is a barbarian!a!!
good morning Demosten and yours 10th Phillipiki`s!
Filip II is a barbarian! -told Demosten
after that comes Alexandar and told to all macedonians- I want to see the Greeks under my legs and how they pray to me!
and that hapends at Hayroneya

nice to meet u
u r very boring nation (i meen the greeks)

Yes Dirigent, you're right, maybe Greece is a very bored nation. But you should remind that is the number one foreing investing country of your nation FYROM. So this bored nation contribute to give thounsands of job oportunities and development to your country!

Greeks are only trying to protect herself of the expansionist politics of her neigbouring countries

Have a nice day!
(for your record, I'm not Greek and I write you from Argentina)

[Dirigent]

u r from arfentina, so u don`t now anything about the Balkan and this problem.

but, i think that the topic is Cyprus, and don`t forget that topic

[bg_turk]

Macedonia = Greek

The question is not whether Macedonia was Greek in antiquity, which it might have been or might not have been as Piratis acknowledged there is a significant degree of doubt, the question is that Macedonia from Solun to Skopie, from Sandanski to Ohrid has been overwhelmingly slavic ever since medieval times, and the Greek State has ethnically cleansed part of the region of all slavs under its expansionist magalo idea. It doesnt matter to whom Macedonia belonged in antiquity, now it belongs to all its inhabitants and Greece never had the write to commit this horrific crime against humanity.

Even in antiquity Macedonia was probably very mixed, it was the meeting place of of several civilizations - Greek, Thracian and Epirians (ancestors of ethnic albanians). Greek was the only written language at the time and the other tribes used their alphabet to write, but this doesnt meant they were Greek.

[nor]

Last time I checked, Alexander is a Greek name, if he was slavic I would think he would be named Alexandij or something like that

This could all be solved in a wide DNA testing throughout the Makedonian area (bul,gre,fyrom,)

[bg_turk]

What is certain is that Alexander was not slavic, slavs had not arrived in the region at that time. What is certain as well is that he spread hellenism around the world. What is very uncertain is that he was greek, in fact as far as I know Macedonia was never mentioned as a greek polis before Alexander. Macedonians may have regarded hellenic civilization as superior, but they were likely a different ethnicity like the thracians, epirians that did not regard themselves as greek, and were considere barbarians by the greeks. Of course after Alexander took control of the greek world, the greeks decided to follow the logic of: if you cannot defeat them, join them; and they accepted Alexander as one of them.

As far as the map you posted is concerned, it refers to ancient Macedonia, or what is now called Aegean Macedonia. Macedonia also includes Varvar Macedonia and Pirin Macedonia.