Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Where do you stand on this one Hermes? Do you agree with Farrugia?

I agree with my friend Bill Cobbett.

WTF! What? Where? When?

Your post about the High-level Agreements. It reminded me how far we are from the principles of a BBF and how Turkey has been using a BBF as cover to push for a confederal solution. Even this week we've had Eroglu on the phone to the Enlargement Commissioner Fule trying to convince him that a solution needs to be EU primary law so as to avoid challenge in the EU courts. In other words, they want a solution to legally discriminate against the majority population. The Turks simply aren't interested in a solution other than on partitionist terms. This is what a "federation" means to them. It's just nonsense that the UN are allowing this charade to continue.

right, full circle we return to a BBF defined by a single Unitary State, as well as constituent states serving their electorate as Persons.

...don't you find it cocky that Christofias must defend the Universal Principals of all Cypriots while he must support "Greek" Cyprus, does Eroglu have the same responsibility?

...wouldn't it be nice if Talat joined Christofias in the founding of our State, while Eroglu, and his (as yet to be found) Greek counterpart define the Rights of Persons? It would be possible to discuss territorial jurisdictions (for the benefit of Maronite and Armenian communities as well, with their participation) without these same players negociating the matters they are all subject to as Individuals, and for which a seperate level of negociatiions is occuring.

...next is this realisation, Cypriots are Sovereign for their island, and that any external influence is foreign to that. Then is the realisation that Cyprus has its own ethnography which if not sustained is threatened toward extinction by the process of Globalization our energy wealth will bring, and the evolution of our relationship within the the EU, now at its advent.

[kimon07]

So why has this not been tried for 47 years? Either everyone else is thick, or you are. Which one is it?

1. Because Cyprus was not an EU member for 47 years and therefore, what would be a "fair" solution was any ones guess till 2004. Now there is the EU acquis to consider. (Read the article again and you will understand what I am saying).
2. Because CY EEZ resources were found very recently. Now, therefore the "big boys" have every reason to be "sensitive" about the sovereignty and unity of the RoC which was not the case 47 or even 7 years ago.
3. Under a democratic (EU) procedure, what will count will not be what each community will vote for , (like in the case of the referendum for the Annan Plan) but what the majority of ALL Cypriots will vote for. So, even if the whole of the TC minority votes against, what will prevail will be the vote of ALL the rest of the Cypriots put together (Greek, Armenian etc). So that will give us AT LEAST 82%. And that will be a truly THICK MAJORITY indeed! Don't you thick (I mean think)?

[Bananiot]

Hermes, are you now advocating that we should move away from the agreed basis for solution which has the full backing of the UN and EU? Simply on the assumption that the other side isn't interested? Please, no hiding under your friend's Bill skirt, this time.

[Lordo]

Bill is wearing a skirt kinky!

Pyro, there are a few assumptions on your think think idea, which you have not thought about.

1. You cannot buy friendship.
2. The gas you talk about will be given to the TCs whether there is an agreement or not.
3. You have to earn friendship and both sides have to want it. One cannot force friendship on another by any means to be friends.
4. In the recent marches the shout was no slavery to Turkey and no patch to the GCs.
5. Back to primary school for you but this time take Bill with you he is lacking in certain basic knowledge of garment wear.

You my friend do not understand the TCs.

[halil]

Bill is wearing a skirt kinky!

Pyro, there are a few assumptions on your think think idea, which you have not thought about.

1. You cannot buy friendship.
2. The gas you talk about will be given to the TCs whether there is an agreement or not.
3. You have to earn friendship and both sides have to want it. One cannot force friendship on another by any means to be friends.
4. In the recent marches the shout was no slavery to Turkey and no patch to the GCs.
5. Back to primary school for you but this time take Bill with you he is lacking in certain basic knowledge of garment wear.

You my friend do not understand the TCs.

Thanks Lordo, U understood very clearly what great majority of us demanding ....No slavery to Turkey and no patch to the GCs...............

[Hermes]

Hermes, are you now advocating that we should move away from the agreed basis for solution which has the full backing of the UN and EU? Simply on the assumption that the other side isn't interested? Please, no hiding under your friend's Bill skirt, this time.

Bananiot, can't you see the contradiction in what you have just said? The evidence is that Turkey has moved away from the idea of a federal solution. Not us. There is no longer an "agreed basis". Turkey is insisting on its own agenda: a continuation of the status quo. It is not prepared to compromise. And the reason is because it is not prepared to relinquish control of the north.

Under these conditions we are perfectly entitled to adopt a new strategy and to seek international support for a unified democratic island with strong minority rights and local autonomy and protection under EU law for all citizens. As the author suggests, this needs to involve a new constitution, a reaching out to the TCs, the promise of a share in gas reserves and grassroots co-operation on both sides - something which we have failed at spectacularly up to now.

If you have a better alternative, I'd like to hear it. Because you can ask for a BBF till you are blue in the face, but if Turkey is no longer interested then we are going nowhere.

[Hermes]

The gas you talk about will be given to the TCs whether there is an agreement or not.

How do you propose this is going to happen ? Please tell us, I'm just dying to know.

[Bananiot]

Hermes, do you really think Turkey is so stupid as to legitimise a move by our side to change the basis of the negotiations? Do you really believe that the lack of progress at the negotiations is solely due to Turkish intransigence? Probably you do believe all these, just as you believe that it is possible to turn the TC community into a minority in a unified Cyprus.

[Hermes]

Hermes, do you really think Turkey is so stupid as to legitimise a move by our side to change the basis of the negotiations? Do you really believe that the lack of progress at the negotiations is solely due to Turkish intransigence? Probably you do believe all these, just as you believe that it is possible to turn the TC community into a minority in a unified Cyprus.

In answer to your first two questions: we have not changed the basis of the negotiations, Turkey has. And yes I believe the lack of progress is solely due to Turkish intransigence.

As for the TCs, they are currently a minority in a divided Cyprus without any say over their future. Living in fear of the loss of their identity and eventual assimilation by settlers. Under the EU, the TCs are entitled to full protection and rights as EU citizens. Most GCs assumed this would be in a unified federal state with local autonomy under the EU acquis. It turns out this isn't a solution that would satisfy Turkey.

If Turkey is not prepared to grant the TCs local autonomy and EU rights in a federal state then the TCs would be better off under the protection of the EU and RoC where they would be granted full citizenship, a share in the island's resources, equal rights and protection.

Of course it's incumbent on the RoC to forge links and to convince the TCs this is where their best interests lie. But in the end, if the TCs would rather choose to live under the Turkish yoke than in a unified state then that is their decision and they have to deal with the consequences.

[bill cobbett]

Hermes, are you now advocating that we should move away from the agreed basis for solution which has the full backing of the UN and EU? Simply on the assumption that the other side isn't interested? Please, no hiding under your friend's Bill skirt, this time.

Yes, can just say that don't wear skirts, vrakes, kilts, foustanellas etc etc... but will concede to dressing pretty scruffily.