Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

So why has this not been tried for 47 years? Either everyone else is thick, or you are. Which one is it?

Niether, it is Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots who are THICK. A BBF is a compromise as far as the RoC is concerned.

You are implicitly implying that a unitary state is a good idea.

[bill cobbett]

Can we throw the past High Level Agreements in to the CF Blender...

This is the 10-point HLA between former Pres Kyprianou and former TMT Terrorist Rough Donktosh...


It was agreed to resume the intercommunal talks on 15 June 1979.

The basis for the talks will be the Makarios-Denktash guidelines of 12 February 1977 and the U.N. resolutions relevant to the Cyprus question.

There should be respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms of all citizens of the Republic.

The talks will deal with all territorial and constitutional aspects.

Priority will be given to reaching agreement of the resettlement of Varosha under U.N. auspices simultaneously with the beginning of the consideration by the interlocutors of the constitutional and territorial aspects of a comprehensive settlement. After agreement on Varosha has been reached it will be implemented without awaiting the outcome of the discussion on other aspects of the Cyprus problem.

It was agreed to abstain from any action which might jeopardize the outcome of the talks, and special importance will be given to initial practical measures by both sides to promote goodwill, mutual confidence and the return to normal conditions.

The demilitarization of the Republic of Cyprus is envisaged, and matters relating thereto will be discussed.

The independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic should be adequately guaranteed against union in whole or in part with any other country and against any form of partition or secession.

The intercommunal talks will be carried out in a continuing and sustained manner, avoiding any delay.

The intercommunal talks will take place in Nicosia.

....

Have put four of the points in bold...

There should be respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms of all citizens of the Republic.
Now this was agreed in 1979 but the fundamental human rights referred to are the same as they are today.

Priority will be given to reaching agreement of the resettlement of Varosha under U.N. auspices simultaneously with the beginning of the consideration by the interlocutors of the constitutional and territorial aspects of a comprehensive settlement. After agreement on Varosha has been reached it will be implemented without awaiting the outcome of the discussion on other aspects of the Cyprus problem.
Clearly this takes the matter of Occupied Famagusta out of the wider settlement and further it was a condition of the settlement talks progressing, or even starting, that Varosi should be dealt with separately and first and without waiting for agreements in other areas.

The demilitarization of the Republic of Cyprus is envisaged, and matters relating thereto will be discussed.
The demilitarisation of CY is envisaged so that takes any notion of Military Guarantees out of the equation.

The independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic should be adequately guaranteed against union in whole or in part with any other country and against any form of partition or secession.
... any form of partition or secession which we can take to mean a strong central federal government.


Now some some will tell us that we are bound by these HL Agreements to a BBF-based settlement, and they have homed in on the BBF part and taken the BBF part and run with it over the years and particularly in the past year 'til they are clearly in CONfederal territory and of course they conveniently ignore the other aspects of the HL Agreements that don't suit them, the bits in bold... and the UN and the Great Powers have, at the very least, acquiesced in this scam.

[Bananiot]

Where do you stand on this one Hermes? Do you agree with Farrugia?

[repulsewarrior]

...i have stressed the importance of defining the distinctions between (a) Peoples' identity, as Persons, and as Individuals.

If we are to successfully define the word Bicommunal (and Bizonal) for the rest of Mankind, it must express our commitment to Universal Principals in a manner where we stand united (as Individuals) for their betterment. Within this context nothing prevents such a Society to identify and sustain other identities, (Persons) through Territorial Jurisdictions as Majorities, having their self-representation where they recognise and respect the Minorities amongst them while serving their needs first.

Cyprus is not seeking the wrong solution, and i suspect that Makarios and Denktash took up this challenge because they were great Statesman (the world needs these words defined). But, looking at it as a "Greek"/"Turkish" issue diminishes any chance for success, in an adversarial politic, too "easy" to understand, allowing the interlocutors to continue their proxy war, by resisting any change of thinking. Thus this impasse continues after all these years, and if Cypriots are to overcome their fears, the wider perspective of Humanity must be demonstrated with more acts like the OBZ, rising above the parameters as they are, being Cypriot, and leadership sensitve to this electorate.

...our "Greekness" or our "Turkishness" is second to our love of this island, with a Unitary State. "Greeks", if they want to sustain themselves as Greeks, should choose to do so. This challenge, by forming a governance equal to their Turkish counterparts, a National Assembly, opens the opportunity for a Federal Government to be established which is free of their bias (as a Majority), so that it effectively and efficiently represents its Citizenry as a whole.

blahblahblahblahblah, please read my manifesto.

[Pyrpolizer]

Indeed the BBF started with Makarios under very different conditions (no sett;lers, no selling of GC properties,no pseudo state), but we later on forced the UN to adopt it in their official resolutions as a reply to Denktash'es position that the CP was solved in 1974 and all that was left were exchange of properties, compensations, and 2 separate states.
I have warned the Kibrislis in this forum that with these oil findings, they will soon have no other option, other than a Unitary state in which at the very best get something more than a minority status.

This woman Erato Kozakou Martkoullis is an extremely clever lady-perhaps the BEST foreign Minister we ever had.It seems she already started the game, and I won't be surprised if after January 2012 the UN will be forced to admit that BBF is no longer a valid solution for CP.

Fantastic, thank god for this very clever female, but has she taken into consideration the fact that 95% of TCs will refuse it. So what have we got to look forward to is another 47 years of negotiations with this concept, perhaps her granchild will come up with BBF in a 47 years time? I look forward to that.

Thanks but no thanks.

Hehehe. You are absolutely right. She has taken into account that you will refuse it. In fact the Kypreoi leaders to come after Christofias are betting on it. The valid question is WHY?? Think, think, think

[Pyrpolizer]

Indeed the BBF started with Makarios under very different conditions (no sett;lers, no selling of GC properties,no pseudo state), but we later on forced the UN to adopt it in their official resolutions as a reply to Denktash'es position that the CP was solved in 1974 and all that was left were exchange of properties, compensations, and 2 separate states.
I have warned the Kibrislis in this forum that with these oil findings, they will soon have no other option, other than a Unitary state in which at the very best get something more than a minority status.

This woman Erato Kozakou Martkoullis is an extremely clever lady-perhaps the BEST foreign Minister we ever had.It seems she already started the game, and I won't be surprised if after January 2012 the UN will be forced to admit that BBF is no longer a valid solution for CP.

Interesting post, Pyro. I think the game started in 2004 when Cyprus acceded to the EU and brought the whole island under the jurisdiction of EU law.

It was just one step forward my friend. Not very effective though, 8 years have already passed with absolutely no results. OIL will bring the change imo.

[Pyrpolizer]

Where do you stand on this one Hermes? Do you agree with Farrugia?

It doesn't matter if anyone agrees or not Bananiot.
There is a new policy already unfolding, and Christofias himself is actually losing control.Imagine what will happen after he is gone...
You will see more and more articles like Feruggias in the press, more and more EU & UN officials aligning with the new policy, BBF will be history in no time.
And all these for one reason only. OIL

[kimon07]

The people of the two communities, especially the younger generation, need to make a bottom-up request to their political leaders to draw a Constitution by Cypriots for Cypriots where each and every one has an equal voice through his representatives at the highest levels. Cyprus as an EU and OSCE Participating State does not need dividing lines and zones.

By Alfred A Farrugia in Washington

"We seek for Cyprus a constitutional democracy based on majority rule, the rule of law, and the protection of minority rights"(George H.W. Bush, vice President of the US, July 6th 1988).

AMEN!

[humanist]

I think we should start all over again and remind the UN what resolutions they have taken on Cyprus and why and that they need to intervene and take action.

The reason is that Turkey at the request of a minority has invaded occupied and continues to occupy a third of the country thus violating human rights

[Maximus]

I think we should start all over again and remind the UN what resolutions they have taken on Cyprus and why and that they need to intervene and take action.

The reason is that Turkey at the request of a minority has invaded occupied and continues to occupy a third of the country thus violating human rights

absolutely,