Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lit]

There is no excuse for Turkey denying this tragic chapter in their long and bloody history..
But it is not upto parliaments in unrelated countries to decide what did or did not happen in history....

On the contrary. In a democratic International Society, it is exclusively up to the parliaments of ALL free and democratic countries, and NOT up to administrations or single politicians of individual countries, to RECOGNIZE (not decide) what really happened in history, based on true facts. The parliaments of Free Countries who recognize world crimes (such as the Turkish invasion in Cyprus) are not "unrelated" but on the contrary, are obliged to act in such manner in relation to International problems and international tragedies and crimes under the International Law and the principles of the United Nations. After all, that is the reason of even the existence of the International Court for war crimes and cimes against Humanity. They are also entitled and obliged to impose penalties. It is the prohibition and the criminalization of the doubt and of the contradiction by citizens that I dispute.

It will set the Armenian cause back by decades,because it will fuel Turkish nationalism,and make it more difficult for the Turkish parliament to ...

You seem to know a lot about Turkish nationalism and let me tell you, if you represent a Cypriot dove in the north ... forget it! There will never be peace on this island. Period. We here do not care what fuels Turkish nationalism for we no longer reside under the Ottomans but in a democratic country where we can praise or curse laws that are passed ... it is our right to do so.

Some people say it is their right to express an opinion without being threatened with prison...

True for that is exactly what occurs in your beloved Turkiye when you insult "Turkishness".

that is not your concern at the moment...

But it was never your concern, Bir, never. Furthermore, please do not advise me on what will set back the Armenian cause as your only concern is that the Armenian cause is forgotten. We certainly wouldn't want to fuel Turkish nationalism, right?

[Hermes]

You don't get it ,do you???
This will only set the Armenian cause back,by making it impossible for Turkey to openly discuss the issue in their own parliament...I know the Turkish psyche better than you...You don't get the Turks to do anything by showing them a stick...By threats or outside interference...You need to use a gently gently approach,and with time and patience they will come to the party...This way they will only shut the doors and windows and carry on as before...

Don't insult our intelligence. We know the Turkish psyche only too well! Do you think Turkey will voluntarily admit to its crimes? Doesn't it attempt to cover up, distort and deny its crimes at every opportunity?

The Armenian genocide is just as well documented as the holocaust committed by the Nazis. The difference between the Turkish atrocities and the similar Nazi genocide against the Jews is that Turkey continues to deny such crimes ever took place. The significance of genocide denial is that its intention is to eradicate the memory and historical presence of the targeted population. It is a continuation of genocide. That is why it is deemed a crime.

Germany has atoned for its crimes committed in the Second World War. Why is Turkey still showing such utter contempt for the truth and refusing to atone for its past crimes? What is the issue here? There is none but a continuing attempt by Turkey to evade its responsibility.

[Maximus]

Erm...

As well as the recall of the Turkish Ambassador in Paris reported earlier, so that out of 27 EU member states, Turkey now doesn't have diplomatic relations with two of them as well as none with Israel)...

According to the French news agency AFP, the passing of the Bill have prompted angry crowds to gather in Ankara, who as we can imagine are of the ugly, angry nationalist, "homeland-loving" type, who have been shouting...

"We have not committed genocide, we defended the homeland."

and very damnably, they do seem to be threatening France with some kind of physical attack...

"Wait for us France, we will come."

Turkey, ever the reliable ally, has also banned French war-planes and warships from its territory.

Think,Bill...think....If Turkey is fighting wit

h more and more EU countries,and realise she will never be admitted to the EU come what may,would that help solve the Cyprus problem???

Turkey has had plenty of opportunities and a LOT of time to resolve the cyprob and make progress with her EU accession, the kurdish issue as well as making peace with Armenia and some other countries that have issues with her. For whatever reason, she is unable to produce the results. At what point do you cut your losses and say, to hell with you and make the arrangements to move on?

FIRST PHASE OF RESPONSE

Bilateral trips and educational activities of military, economic and political nature canceled.

No cooperation with France on EU twinning projects. All political consultation with
France canceled.

All bilateral military activities canceled.

Previous blanket permission for military flights canceled.

No permission for French military ships to visit Turkish ports.
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey ... sCatID=338

[bill cobbett]

Erm...

As well as the recall of the Turkish Ambassador in Paris reported earlier, so that out of 27 EU member states, Turkey now doesn't have diplomatic relations with two of them as well as none with Israel)...

According to the French news agency AFP, the passing of the Bill have prompted angry crowds to gather in Ankara, who as we can imagine are of the ugly, angry nationalist, "homeland-loving" type, who have been shouting...

"We have not committed genocide, we defended the homeland."

and very damnably, they do seem to be threatening France with some kind of physical attack...

"Wait for us France, we will come."

Turkey, ever the reliable ally, has also banned French war-planes and warships from its territory.

Think,Bill...think....If Turkey is fighting with more and more EU countries,and realise she will never be admitted to the EU come what may,would that help solve the Cyprus problem???

Bir, please be realistic given what Monsieur Sarkozy and Frau Merkel have said time and time again in recent years and the general animosity amongst the citizenry of Europe to Turkish membership, the lamentable reluctance within Turkey in meeting the Stockholm Criteria, all those closed Chapters etc etc... and then add the current economic troubles of the EU to all that... There ain't gonna be any Turkish membership within our lifetimes, so shouldn't we take this factor out of CyProb?

Yes... as Max has just said... move on with other approaches.

[Maximus]

Maximus, every nation on earth uses whatever they have at their disposal to advance their own causes...My point is,this opportunistic bill will set back the Armenian cause not advance it....Turkey will simply clamp up,go into a defensive mood,and refuse to discuss the issue in her own parliament where it should be discussed...Some Turkish Armenians,like Hrant Dink's brother,are already saying this openly...

Maybe Turkey should do something constructive, like resolve all the problems she has with her neighbours.

[bill cobbett]

... but Bir, to agree with you on one thing, this vote isn't gonna get anywhere. it's a private member's bill and it'll get thrown out at some time in the next few months, but Turkey's response to this minor bit of criticism is very revealing...

This over-sensitivity to anything remotely anti-Turkish and there is something of value for a future re-unified CY in all this and that's to remind us all, that there's no place for this rubbish, nationalist Section 301 stuff in CY.

[Maximus]

It is no secret, many members here have their gripes with Turkey and have disagreed with Turkeys approach, more or less towards everything.

Maybe we are all right and Turkey's policy is consistantly wrong.

[Hermes]

but Turkey's response to this minor bit of criticism is very revealing...

Ain't that the truth.

[Maximus]

but Turkey's response to this minor bit of criticism is very revealing...

Ain't that the truth.

To be blunt about it, Turkey is a a backwards, incompetent, problemtatic, whining sack of sh*t.

[Kikapu]

... but Bir, to agree with you on one thing, this vote isn't gonna get anywhere. it's a private member's bill and it'll get thrown out at some time in the next few months, but Turkey's response to this minor bit of criticism is very revealing...

This over-sensitivity to anything remotely anti-Turkish and there is something of value for a future re-unified CY in all this and that's to remind us all, that there's no place for this rubbish, nationalist Section 301 stuff in CY.

Perhaps you and Bir would have been correct that this bill would get quashed in the French Senate, but Turkey is doing again foolishly what she did with Israel, which was "Scourge Earth" policy, to inflict as much damage as possible just to break off relationship with Israel in order to please the Arabs so that Erdogan can be seen as the "hero". After a short while, the French people will definitely turn against the Turks and Turkey and punish them by passing this bill in the Senate, just so to teach Erdogan a lesson so that he knows where his place is amongst the EU member states. Turkey will be playing right into Sarkozy's hands by proving his case to the EU as to why Turkey does not belong in the EU. Revenge works both ways!