Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Let Turkish,Armenian and International historians decide what took place in the past. Let us concentrate on our little bloody problem...It will not go away if we ignore it ...

We know what happened. The issue is that Turkey refuses to face up to what happened. Just as the Nazi holocaust is a matter of historical record so too is the Armenian genocide fully documented. The Turkish government not only refuses to acknowledge what happened, it actively seeks to suppress discussion of what happened. Can you imagine what we'd make of Angela Merkel if she denied the Holocaust against the Jews? Then sought to suppress historical discussion of Nazi atrocities?

The difference between the Turkish atrocities and the similar Nazi genocide against the Jews is that Turkey continues to deny such crimes ever took place.

The significance of genocide denial is that its intention is to eradicate the memory and historical presence of the targeted population. It is a continuation of genocide. Anyone familiar with the Turkish treatment of its Kurdish population and the occupation of northern Cyprus would recognise that such Turkish crimes against humanity are not simply a part of Turkish history. They are still going on. The impulse that drove Turkey to commit genocide against the Armenians is no different to the impulse that drives Turkey to eradicate Greek Cypriots and their cultural heritage from northern Cyprus.

That's why this issue is relevant to our "little bloody problem". Turkey facing up to its past crimes would go some way to Turkey being able to acknowledge its present crimes.

If you are trying to draw a parallel between the Nazi holocaust and the Armenian "genocide" and the Cyprus problem,you are drawing a very long bow.....In other words,you are full of shit....I have no intention of defending the treatment of the Armenians in 1915,and Turkey must stand up and be accountable for what happened...But dont try to be a smartarse about Cyprus problem...Here we have a whole people divided by nationalist fever,not allowed to become a nation of Cypriots,in order to serve the interests of the imperialist powers,including Turkey and Greece...Misrepresenting the fundemental issues will not help us find a solution...get that through your thick head...

[bill cobbett]

Bill has been approved.

Turkey recalls its ambassador.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-europe-16297414

[Hermes]

If you are trying to draw a parallel between the Nazi holocaust and the Armenian "genocide" and the Cyprus problem,you are drawing a very long bow....

I am drawing that exact parallel. Like I said, the significance of genocide denial is that its intention is to eradicate the memory and historical presence of the targeted population. It is a continuation of genocide. Anyone familiar with the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus would recognise that Turkish crimes against humanity are are still going on. That is why the north of Cyprus is under sanction.

What is the forced expulsion of the GCs from northern Cyprus if not ethnic cleansing? What is the eradication of the north's cultural heritage if not an attempt to eradicate the memory and historical presence of the targeted population.

I state it here unequivocally, what Turkey is doing in Cyprus is nothing but an attempt at ethnic cleansing of the targeted population. It is nothing to do with "competing nationalisms". That is like saying the Nazi holocaust of the Jews was a disagreement between rival ways of seeing the world. That is utter nonsense. No wonder Turkey is so keen to create the impression that there is any doubt about what happened in the past.

[Hermes]

Bill has been approved.

Turkey recalls its ambassador.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-europe-16297414

Well done to France! A victory for freedom and the obligation of all nations to own up to the atrocities of the past.

Holocaust denial is a continuation of genocide. It is time for Turkey to put its bloody past behind it, face up to the reality of its crimes, apologise and make recompense to all the victims of Turkey's vicious genocidal nationalism: Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and Greek Cypriots.

[Maximus]

There is no excuse for Turkey denying this tragic chapter in their long and bloody history..
But it is not upto parliaments in unrelated countries to decide what did or did not happen in history...And if we believe in freedom of speech as a fundamental human right,we must condemn any attempt to limit it...

It is also deplorable that some of you here are using other people's pain and suffering to further your own twisted cause...Let Turkish,Armenian and International historians decide what took place in the past..Let us concentrate on our little bloody problem...It will not go away if we ignore it ...

This has nothing to do with the Cyprus problem, granted, but everything to do with Turkey who has and continues to be problematic for all her neighbours. If she does not recognise anything, then you can bet your bottom dollar that the she has not learnt anything either, which in turn may set a precedent for her to repeat the same mistakes.

Turkey uses other peoples pain and suffering to further her own cause, does she not? (think about it). The thing with Turkey is, she cant point a finger and accuse anyone of of anything without 5 fingers being pointed back at her.

[kimon07]

There is no excuse for Turkey denying this tragic chapter in their long and bloody history..
But it is not upto parliaments in unrelated countries to decide what did or did not happen in history....

On the contrary. In a democratic International Society, it is exclusively up to the parliaments of ALL free and democratic countries, and NOT up to administrations or single politicians of individual countries, to RECOGNIZE (not decide) what really happened in history, based on true facts. The parliaments of Free Countries who recognize world crimes (such as the Turkish invasion in Cyprus) are not "unrelated" but on the contrary, are obliged to act in such manner in relation to International problems and international tragedies and crimes under the International Law and the principles of the United Nations. After all, that is the reason of even the existence of the International Court for war crimes and cimes against Humanity. They are also entitled and obliged to impose penalties. It is the prohibition and the criminalization of the doubt and of the contradiction by citizens that I dispute.

[kimon07]

This has nothing to do with the Cyprus problem, granted....

On the contrary. It has. The Armenian Genocide was an International crime committed by Turkey. The Ethnic Cleansing against ALL Cypriots taking place at this moment in Cyprus, (which we must push hard to have it recognized internationally) is also an International Crime committed by Turkey. So, they are both crimes against Humanity, committed by the same International Criminal, both falling under the jurisdiction of the International Court of crimes against Humanity.
In fact, I think that an International Committee must be formed to list and recognize officially all the International Crimes that Turkey has committed against Humanity since after WW1 (including those against the Greeks of Pontos, the Assyrians, the Kurds etc). And after recognizing them, to come up with measures which will stop the beast from repeating it's criminal tactics.

[BirKibrisli]

If you are trying to draw a parallel between the Nazi holocaust and the Armenian "genocide" and the Cyprus problem,you are drawing a very long bow....

I am drawing that exact parallel. Like I said, the significance of genocide denial is that its intention is to eradicate the memory and historical presence of the targeted population. It is a continuation of genocide. Anyone familiar with the Turkish occupation of northern Cyprus would recognise that Turkish crimes against humanity are are still going on. That is why the north of Cyprus is under sanction.

What is the forced expulsion of the GCs from northern Cyprus if not ethnic cleansing? What is the eradication of the north's cultural heritage if not an attempt to eradicate the memory and historical presence of the targeted population.

I state it here unequivocally, what Turkey is doing in Cyprus is nothing but an attempt at ethnic cleansing of the targeted population. It is nothing to do with "competing nationalisms". That is like saying the Nazi holocaust of the Jews was a disagreement between rival ways of seeing the world. That is utter nonsense. No wonder Turkey is so keen to create the impression that there is any doubt about what happened in the past.

As I said before :You are full of SHIT...Do not empty your stinking bowels over the pain and suffering of the Armenian people...

[BirKibrisli]

Bill has been approved.

Turkey recalls its ambassador.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-europe-16297414

Well done to France! A victory for freedom and the obligation of all nations to own up to the atrocities of the past.

Holocaust denial is a continuation of genocide. It is time for Turkey to put its bloody past behind it, face up to the reality of its crimes, apologise and make recompense to all the victims of Turkey's vicious genocidal nationalism: Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and Greek Cypriots.

Don't get too excited,colostomy bag...Only something like 70 mps voted out of some 570...This will never get through the French Senate...Election of no election...Sarkozy or no Sarkozy...What this will do is to give more ammunition to Turkish nationalists,and make it more difficult for Turkey to finally do the right thing by the Armenian people...You are not concerned about that ,of course...You just want to pour shit over Turkey at every opportunity to advance your own onesided arguments over Cyprus...You are shameless!!!

[BirKibrisli]

There is no excuse for Turkey denying this tragic chapter in their long and bloody history..
But it is not upto parliaments in unrelated countries to decide what did or did not happen in history....

On the contrary. In a democratic International Society, it is exclusively up to the parliaments of ALL free and democratic countries, and NOT up to administrations or single politicians of individual countries, to RECOGNIZE (not decide) what really happened in history, based on true facts. The parliaments of Free Countries who recognize world crimes (such as the Turkish invasion in Cyprus) are not "unrelated" but on the contrary, are obliged to act in such manner in relation to International problems and international tragedies and crimes under the International Law and the principles of the United Nations. After all, that is the reason of even the existence of the International Court for war crimes and cimes against Humanity. They are also entitled and obliged to impose penalties. It is the prohibition and the criminalization of the doubt and of the contradiction by citizens that I dispute.

Get a grip on reality,my friend...This is pure opportunism by Sarkozy to win some French Armenian votes...It has nothing to do with justice,or democracy,or freedom of speech...It will set the Armenian cause back by decades,because it will fuel Turkish nationalism,and make it more difficult for the Turkish parliament to debate the issue in the near future...This bill will curtail academic liberties as well...Turkey will simply shut the doors to any documents that might shed some light on what really happened...It will hinder not speed up the final resolution...