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human biccomunal stories

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:17 pm

Kifeas
Your thoughts and input are well known Viewpoint. The logic behind your arguments is very simple. “You did to us this and that 40 or 50 years ago and for this reason we do not trust you and therefore we are ethically /morally allowed to keep you out of your country, your houses and out of your properties,” or “We do not trust you and because you cannot make us trust you, we are allowed to partition the country forever and declare whatever was yours to be ours forever.” This is all your argumentation and your hypothesis. This is what Mr. Denktash tried to make you get used to, during all this years.


I have always tried to express my views honestly and openly, and thats why you are clear on where I stand, why does this make you uncomfortable? I get the impression that you feel our mutual history does not warrant that we do not trust each other??? that our fears are unwarranted?? we are being paranoid?? am I right? In that case do you feel this issue should not be addressed and no trust building meaasure are necessary to show to all Cypriots that these concerns fears call them what you will are the product of the Denktas propaganda machine. Feel free to prove us wrong, show us that our mistrust of GCs real intentions are unwarranted. To date I have seen a GC administration that is still after using EU leverage to squeeze what it can out of the TCs and "win a victory" in taking control of the whole island both politically and economically, reducing us to a minority status, please please prove me wrong....
Kifeas give us more credit, your arguement that we got your properties so we want to keep them, in that case we dont want a solution is wearing thin and does not hold water any longer, the property issue is not a major priority for the average TCs who is more concerned with equal representation and security....those that have benefited from GC properites will pay when or if the comprehensive solution is reached. Why cant you understand this???its not that difficult, solution = return of land/property.
The partition issue Kifeas, come on my friend would you want to live and share with someone you feel would stab you in the back the first opportunity they got by changing the rules and using tactics to unite with someone else and gradually reducing you to a nonentity.
The current partition is the product of our (Cypriots) mistakes in not taking control of our own destiny as Cypriots, the partition has stopped neddless deaths and intercommunal problems experienced in our past.
The time period is also our (Cypriots) fault, for numerous reasons we have been unable unwilling label it what you wish to compromise and resolve our issues, the result has been perpetuated over time. (Im trying not to lay blame on either side here).
So the current staus quo is just as much your fault as it is mine and the fact that I currently support recognized partition for return of land/property is that I have conceded to the notion that we are unable to solve the Cyprus issue, we do not have the will, desire, flexiblity,vision, we are kidding ourselves. You on the other hand have not conceded to this idea but in 10 20 30 years down the line when we are still srguing the same issues you may, not saying you will im saying you may theres a difference. thats the difference between your viewpoint and mine...

Luckily and despite all the conditioning from denktash, the majority of the TCs, to their credit did not subscribe to this logic. Unfortunately, you are one of those who subscribed.


are you basing your assumption on the 65% yes to the A-Plan? dont forget they would only unite with GCs under a plan that GC found totally unacceptable and resoundingly rejected...food for thought?

Tell me which law, natural or positive, national or international, moral or written, allows you to think and act in this way.


The human nature/mind is very complex thing as you well know and as long as in my mind I do not trust the intentions of GCs towards me and my community I have the right to act in this manner as a human.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:21 pm

Othellos wrote:
Arent we saying the same thing? if there arent enough people that can display the flexibility or compromise then sure these people are incapable of uniting and working for a common future for the benefit of all Cypriots.


Remember Viewpoint when I wrote in this forum a few days ago about your tendency to generalize?

O.


Could you kindly be more specific? Im trying to state that what you said really confirms what I stated earlier.
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Postby Main_Source » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:42 pm

Lets be real about this.

The current partition is the fault of Turkey who is illegally occupying the north of the island.
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Postby akiner » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:02 am

Lets be real about this.

The current partition is the fault of Turkey who is illegally occupying the north of the island.


Rofl, i agree with this one, it was fault of Turks not to clean whole island on 1571 :!: :?:
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Postby cypezokyli » Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:15 pm

hi. this is the lat one i got from a friend of mine.
i ll ask the tcs to excuse me i would like to post also the original i got, in cypriot dialect which i am a big fun of.

the translation comes just under

pou lalis itan o filos mou o ilis ipen mou..tsiakkare to onoma mporo na diaferi kapou..elis, iles en ime 100 ta 100.

pou lalis epiaen me jinos kouventa kala ta kipriaka tou polla kalla ehrisimopian lexis pou jemis haha na tes xiasoumen i mana tou o jiris tou je oi pappoues tou emilousan tou gia na mathi agapousan tous kipreous ipen mou..itan prosfiges pou tin pafo..en athimoume to horkon..

ekanonizen ta noumera tou na fkaloumen mazi..polles ores emilousa men..je polles meres

ttakka eton kliridin pou anefanen hristougena .protohronian oute touton to athimoume..edoken mou mian tsentou tis bic ishen mesa xeris afron je xiourafkia..efia oloisha je epia skopian...itan je o ilis ekratoun je ta pramata..imoun kamposon girismenos ithala na pao esso..esira tou tin tsentoua...hronia polla re kartajin ipen mou jinos..hronia polla lalo tou je ego. ishen illiouin je ekatsamen ipamen ton tsiaron mas je elalen mou kouventes gia tin filenadan tou inta topous eshi poji pou pasin exo...ma ekamamen polles istories....na sou po efien mou jemen to girisman. elalen mou istories pou tou elalen o pappous tou enathimoume an ezien o geros toutos. efien thkio meres adian itan je palios toutos..irten piso..ego imoun opos panta skopos,mes to iliouin tsiaron je poka.. efkiken pas tin skopian itan allos pou efkalen noumeron....en ton epira prefan...je esiren mou enan kommatin touflo mian tripan tou touflou gia na katalavis...pale en edoka simmasian afou oulli mera erotsiazan mas emas..telos panton opos to thoroun to toufloui hame epiaen to mati mou mian kolla tilimenin pou ishen mpimenin mesa... sikonoume pianno to fkalo tin kollan anio tin thoro enan radiouin potounta mitsia me ta head phones tou complete..inta thkiaolon lalo poumesa mou...diklo pano o ilis pas to varellin je pinni tsiaron..re kartajin pou ise re lalo tou...egelan jinos..eferen mou je jinos doron taha... je arkepsamen kouventa adies tou pou epien je je je .....efia istera pou thkio meres oute ton exanaida...en epia ennan noumeron enan onoma soston itan na to evriskamen tora an ithelamen..alla pou na xeris oti ita na anixoun ta odofragmata.



so the story goes like this:
(i ll write on first person just like i received it...the brackets are mine)

(it was either christmass or new years, either 2001 or 2002. both were soldiers, and met each other often on guard. it was in nicosia where the guards are really close and they could talk to each other)

my friend was called elis, iles, ilis i cannot really remember correctly (he told him that he was told andreas... lies ofcource)

so, he started talking to me. spoke very good cypriot, he was using words that we are about to forget. his mother father and grandparents spoke to him in greek in order to learn. they loved the cypriots ..he said. they were refugees from paphos...i can not remember the village

he was arranging that we go on the same time on guard...we used to talk for hours....and days...


and suddenly, comes clerides. either christmass or new years..he gave me a BIC bag with a couple of razers and shaving foam..i left straight for guard...ilis was also there. i was still holding the gifts...i was pissed that i couldnt go home...i threw him the clerides gifts..mary christmass re gardash he said...merry christmass i said..the sun was also there, we smoked a cigarette and he used to say stories about his girlfriens and for the places he was visiting on the other side...we spoke a lot...i was not that pissed any more...
he was telling me stories that his grandfather used to tell him. perhaps the old guy was dead. then he left for a couple of days to go home. he was also "old" in the army...he game back..i was on guard, the sun, my cigarette my coffee (typical cypriot soldier :))...he came on guard, even though it was not his time...i didnt realise that it was him...he threw at me a piece of brick, a whole hole of a brick to make u understand. ..again i didnt pay attention, the used to throw stones at us the whole time (yeap, swearing and stone exchange is common)...anyway , i suddenly noticed a piece of paper hanging from the hole of the brick...i stood up picked the paper, unrolled it, and i found inside a small radio with headphones, it was complete...what the hell? i thought... i turn up and ilis was sitting on the barrel smoking...re gardashi its you?...he was laughing...he also braought me a present...and we started talking about how he spent his holidays and and and...

ater a couple of days i left...i never saw him again...i didnt even get a real name, a phone number ..we could find him now if we wanted...but how the hell could i know that the borders would open one day?
..............
re ili are you in this forum somewhere ?
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Postby Agios Amvrosios » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:10 am

I've got a modern bicommunal story.

There is this (Mainland)turkish guy in my Uni class. I had a scam selling knock off Nike Air my girlfriends brother was smuggling in shipping containers of bikes from China. The turkish guy is my best salesman, He has sold pairs to half the students and staff at our uni and he even sold a pair to the dean.

When I told him about how the Greeks were kicked out of Kyrenia he said he was told at turkish school that the Greeks were given compensation and left of our own will- I told nah man! shit was real fucked up I told him my uncles are missing people. Its a fucking nightmare.

Anyway-Sometimes we exchange shoes for blunts and butter and he brings the argileh (traditional Turkish Bong) and we get so toasted.

He is 25 and he is still at uni.Last semester he was on academic probabtion for failing the same subject 3 times. If he got kicked out of uni I wouldn't be able to pay my car loan so I tutored him and he passed -But then my car got stolen so I paid out the car and home loan .

His parents live in Melbourne and have a good business so they keep sending him to uni- he told them he is doing a masters degree and thats why he has been at uni for 8 years fulltime.

This semester he failed more subjects so he is back on academic probation.
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Postby Main_Source » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:46 am

He is 25 and he is still at uni


uhm HELLO! Im 26 and startin my last year of uni!! whats wrong with this!? lol

are you trying to make me feel even MORE depressed that im gonna be 30 years old in 4 years??
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Postby Piratis » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:30 am

I've got a modern bicommunal story.

Well, he is a Turk and not a T|C, in Australia, and your story is about smuggling shoes.

Not exactly a bicommunal story (but funny nevertheless) ;)
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Postby cypezokyli » Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:08 pm

last night i experienced a human story. its not bicommunal, actually it has nothing to do with cyprus, but i thought of not opening another thread.
just wanted to share it.
.............
i went to frankfurt to visit some old friends. the one that i went to visit was an american girl. in the group there were among others two amrican soldiers. the one has never been on the battlefield and was of the opinion that we fight so u can be free (that was she said to my american friend at some point).
the other was a kid, 23, just wanted to have some beers. when he said i was in irak und i ll return back in january, it was as if he punched me in the face. he got listed when he was 18, seeking for adventure or money, who knows , and now all he wants is to get the hell out of there.

my american friend then hat a crisis. she could see in that guy so many friends she had , and she started crying that, that guy and so many american kids have been killed or they have killed. she cried about the irakis.i guess the american feel that is a little bit their fault, even if they are against it...it was bad.

for me...it was firtsly a cultural shock. coming from a country where we learn to hate the americans, i always imagined an american soldier as high-equiped killing machine. not a stupid kid drinking beers in a pub.
i was also shocked bc even though i met some people who have been in a war, i never met someone who will be in a war in a couple of months.
i wanted to tell him: when u go back try not to kill people.
in the end what i managed to say was: try to stay alive.
what a stupid world
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Postby ELLAS H TEFRA! » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:29 am

Ohhhh.. :cry: :cry: :cry:
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