Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

how do you know these TCs were innocent maybe they were traitors or sell outs, lets say for arguments sake they were fooled that GCs were really for independence and co existence now we all know for sure that GCs were using independence as a pretext to achieve their ultimate goal of enosis (refer to the treatment of TCs between 1960 and 1974) placing these innocent TCs in the line of fire.

Finally! So you believe that all those TCs deserved to be gunned down and killed? Is that what you are saying? That they were probably traitors to the TC cause? That to be for "independence" and "co-existence" they must have been "fooled?, as you put it? Therefore they probably deserved to be gunned down in cold blood. Because their beliefs would have led not to "independence" and a "peaceful co-existence" as they thought - but inevitably to union with Greece. Therefore they needed to be assassinated before it could come into effect!

Yes. I'm sure you are right, VP. That is probably the logic of the paranoid madness that led to these innocent men being shot. What took you so long to justify why they had to be murdered? I'm surprised it's taken me 4 pages to get it out of you. The sad thing is that you believe it. This is the demented logic of "taksim" that shameless fascists like VP still cling to.

It's really not that big a leap from the murder of innocent TCs to the ethnic cleansing of 200,000 GCs from the north in 1974, also guilty of conspiring for "enosis" apparently and therefore fair game for Turkey's ethnic-cleansing machine. On all those corpses and lies they have built the myth of their ethnically-pure Turkish statelet...

[Viewpoint]

how do you know these TCs were innocent maybe they were traitors or sell outs, lets say for arguments sake they were fooled that GCs were really for independence and co existence now we all know for sure that GCs were using independence as a pretext to achieve their ultimate goal of enosis (refer to the treatment of TCs between 1960 and 1974) placing these innocent TCs in the line of fire.

Finally! So you believe that all those TCs deserved to be gunned down and killed? Is that what you are saying? That they were traitors to the TC cause? That to be for "independence" and "co-existence" they must have been "fooled?, as you put it? Therefore they deserved to be gunned down in cold blood. Because their beliefs would have led not to "independence" and a "peaceful co-existence" as they thought - but inevitably to union with Greece. Therefore they needed to be assassinated before it could come into effect!

Yes. I'm sure you are right, VP. That is probably the logic of the paranoid madness that led to these innocent men being shot. What took you so long to justify why they had to be murdered? I'm surprised it's taken me 4 pages to get it out of you. The sad thing is that you believe it.

Dear readers, you see how this kind of paranoid madness also led to the Turkish invasion of 1974 and why it was so easy for the TCs to justify the ethnic cleansing of 200,000 GCs from the north? For GCs are similarly intent on "enosis" and deserved to be killed and cleansed from the north so that TCs can establish their ethnically-pure statelet. No-one can get in the way of this Turkish madness. Not their own people who will be killed as "traitors" and certainly not the GCs, who happen to be the majority on the island. This is the demented logic of "taksim" that shameless fascists like VP still cling to. And now we know why the TMT murdered Turkish Cypriots.

hermes you must be a politician your the one talking to the stands..you utter words that mean absolutely nothing..paranoia and false hypothetical hysteria is all over your last post, you twist what is being said to suit your own agenda which is to honor enosis and demonize taksim. You have to get it into your head that the chain of events was enosis first followed as a counter movement taksim...your bullshit about GCs wanting independence and co existence is a load of bull as this was never the case and you know it, all you have to do is ask anyone who lived through those times. Independence for GCs was just another hurdle to get over to get to the ultimate prize enosis.

This hypothetical conclusion you are trying to reach is not only pathetic but very amateurish, to judge why innocent TCs died during those times we would have to analyze each and every case to determine who killed them and for what reason, many of these innocents were killed by eoka terrorists and the blame was place at the door of TMT (exactly what you are trying to do today) . So your little game of trying to excuse enosis/eoka and blame taksim/tmt for the division of today is over.

You have still to answer the question why eoka terrorists killed innocent GCs for wanting independence and to co exsistence with TCs?

[bill cobbett]

The headline question in the OP asks...

Why did the TMT murder Turkish Cypriots?

[Hermes]

hermes you must be a politician your the one talking to the stands..you utter words that mean absolutely nothing..paranoia and false hypothetical hysteria is all over your last post, you twist what is being said to suit your own agenda which is to honor enosis and demonize taksim. You have to get it into your head that the chain of events was enosis first followed as a counter movement taksim...your bullshit about GCs wanting independence and co existence is a load of bull as this was never the case and you know it, all you have to do is ask anyone who lived through those times. Independence for GCs was just another hurdle to get over to get to the ultimate prize enosis.

I'm sorry, VP, but you keep making the mistake of thinking I am trying to establish which came first: enosis or taksim. Or that I am trying to glamorise EOKA when I have said little or nothing to suggest that. I am entirely focused on one question only: why did the TMT kill innocent Turkish Cypriots? That is my starting point. All conclusions about taksim are from the simple conclusion that these activists were killed because they advocated a peaceful co-existence. Nothing to do with enosis.

You are the one who keeps bringing up enosis in relation to their murders. For example, you claim they must have been killed because they were probably traitors whose activism would have inevitably led to enosis. That any TC who believed in "peaceful co-existence" must been a fool or a traitor or both. That''s why they were killed. You are the one fixated on enosis and turning it into an obsession that justifies any act of barbarism - even against innocent TCs!

In other words, you are seeking to justify their murders after all this time. You want to blame them for being gunned down. That they somehow "deserved" it. You even want to open each case to see if they were truly guilty or not. You cannot countenance the fact these men were innocent. Because their innocence would expose the lie upon which the whole edifice of taksim was built: that it was not a simple reaction to enosis but rather a vindictive and bloody campaign against Cypriot independence and the idea of co-existence amongst its people.

[Viewpoint]

Your generalization is starting to get rather tedious, how are we supposed to know why each individual was killed, you can only come to a healthy conclusion if you have all the facts before you and we dont, its obvious your aim and agenda is something else. To excuse enosis and prove that tmt was the root of all our problems, well it dont work that way you cant rewrite history....the coup itself which triggered off intervention was exactly what your are trying to excuse enosis.

So dont give me all the bullshit about innocent TCs were killed because they believed in an independent Cyprus and co existing with GCs as you full well the GCs never wanted this they used this as a pretext in trying to achieve their ultimate goal of enosis.

You still avoid answering why eoka terrorists killed innocent GCs for wanting independence and to co exsistence with TCs? 4th or was it 5th request.

[repulsewarrior]

...by your own statements, we can conclude that the TMT and EOKA were the same.

...so in answer to your question VP, both had an agenda which dismissed the People as objects to be subjugated.

...furthermore, when we talk about the People, rather than the "Greeks/Turks" you will recall that in '74, when the Akritas plan was just a step away from reality, the Greeks did not side with the "Greeks"; puts a dent in the logic of lumping them together.

...so you are a "Turk", regretfully because you are no Turk.

[Hermes]

So dont give me all the bullshit about innocent TCs were killed because they believed in an independent Cyprus and co existing with GCs as you full well the GCs never wanted this they used this as a pretext in trying to achieve their ultimate goal of enosis.

I know this is a difficult issue but that's no excuse for muddled thinking. It's a fact that a number of TCs were killed by the Turkish-sponsored TMT terrorists between 1958-1964 for "expressing pro-coexistence views". According to you this is not possible because no TC would ever trust a GC to want to live peacefully with him! Because all GCs want, in your paranoid philosophy, is "enosis"! Therefore no Turkish Cypriot would be stupid enough to want co-existence or peace and if a TC did express such views he was duped into it by lying GCs whose real motive was "enosis"!

May I ask, VP, if you actually believe any of this nonsense you write? Or whether you just think we're all fools?

[repulsewarrior]

Can a State be above a Nation; can people find representation as Individuals while they sustain an identity as a Person?

...if you support two parts of the island divided to be mutually exclusive, the answer is "no". You are a "Greek" or a "Turk".

...if you place your love for this island above these identities, then the debate becomes Rights for Individuals, and Rights for the People as Persons. as Cypriots, they stand united to defend their Sovereignty with a Federal Government for their representation as a whole (Individual Rights), while as Majorities (Personal Rights) within their own constituencies, National Assemblies will represent agendas toward sustaining these distinctions by recognising the Minorities amongst them, expessing "their" Goodwill. Many governing bodies, at least three, (that means collecting taxes), beyond Greeks and Turks, if you include the Maronites and Armenians who have as well a living Heritance here, but two levels of Government; this is Bicommunal.

[Viewpoint]

Hermes of course I believe in everything i write, people back then were very simple and easily led of course innocent Cypriots on both sides of the divide were killed for opposing either enosis or taksim...theres no difference you are trying to create a whole case out of nothing. If both GCs and Tcs were killed for opposing enosis or taksim doesnt this automatically mean that they were both killed for as you want to believe wanting independence and co existence?

You are the biggest fool of all if you continue to post and promote that GCs fought for independence and co existence as this was never the case...again this was just a stepping stone on the way to the ultimate prize being enosis which was the TCs biggest fear and why they fought back with taksim.

I think we have exhausted this subject and accept that we will never see eye to eye, we dont have as we do not live together nor do we depend on each other.

[GreekIslandGirl]

You still avoid answering why eoka terrorists killed innocent GCs for wanting independence and to co exsistence with TCs? 4th or was it 5th request.

You are wrong. EOKA killed only those GCs who collaborated with the British to prevent the struggle for freedom. They did not have co-existence issues with TCs, so you are completely wrong in your second assertion.