Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

Makarios also made a speech in Limasol in 1973, after the bombing campaign on police stations by Grivas and accused his campaign of being the final nails in the coffin of Enosis.

Makarios never gave up the on Enosis till the day he died.

This is incorrect. The Greek junta tried to get rid of Makarios because he was the main obstacle to enosis. Makarios never had any intention of handing Cyprus over to the thugs of the junta. In 1968 Makarios had officially renounced enosis as unfeasible and started to pursue a popular mandate for Cypriot independence. Although his public statements about enosis as a long-term goal remained ambivalent, he was arguably paying lip-service to the nationalists without fully confronting them. His major flaw borne out of weakness. For this reason you should not take Makarios' public statements about enosis post-1967 at face value. He was deeply conflicted about enosis, as most Cypriots were. Post 1967, enosis was not really a viable option for the majority of Greek Cypriots, and was nothing more than a sentimental dream.

[Bananiot]

double

[Bananiot]

No Hermes, there are people who will still kill and murder for enosis, even today. We need to be totally honest about this. Makarios and the Junta of Greece differed only on tactics employed regarding enosis. Makarios saw, albeit vey late, that politically this was not an easy goal to achieve. Papadopoulos (the colonel) agreed with Makarios, but when he was disposed by the hard liner Ioannides, Makarios found himself in a real squeeze. Ioannides wanted Enosis like a bull. Makarios knew that he had to wiggle his way around. Ioannides and EOKA B' with their supporters toppled Makarios and the question now is, whose tactics could have paid off? Those employed by Makarios or the ones employed by the coupists. The latter failed, but Makarios did have a chance, in the long run perhaps, to outwit the Turks. So he thought at least, but his theory wasn't about to be tested, thanks to the coup that accelerated events that could have happened later.

[Hermes]

In 1973 the two communities came very close to an agreement, which, had it been ratified would have saved Cyprus from the calamity that followed....The conclusions are yours.

One missed opportunity for sure. This neither justifies nor excuses what followed in '74. Nor do we have to accept it as a fait accompli. You cannot look back on missed opportunities and then think each subsequent "opportunity" is the last one. Turkey likes to play the game of the "final chance" saloon. We have no need to play this game. If the Cypriots have long renounced enosis, the Turkish agenda is still the TMT dream of partition, taksim. A violently enforced self-segregation at our expense. Only they call it a "confederation" these days. Unfortunately for them, international law and the EU stands in their way. Turkey missed their opportunity in 2004 because we denied it to them and they were way too greedy. We should not take our rights so lightly. Nor should we be too ready to sacrifice our rights, our sovereignty, in favour of, or fear of, one more "missed opportunity".

[Bananiot]

Hermes, you need to understand that the other side has valid arguments too. Agreed, TMT had an agenda for taksim, this is no secret. They held several rallies even in London calling for partition. The problem is, we played into the hands of TMT. We legitimised un unacceptable claim. What is past is past, now we have to deal with the current situation as it has been formed. New facts have been created on the ground and our position is very weak, unfortunately, mostly as a result of our past actions, which sadly for us cannot be deleted with the stroke of a pen. This is how the world is run and we should have known better. If we continue, for example, to view the TCs as a minority we will lose the eggs and the basket. At least lets learn from our mistakes in the hope that we can avoid them in the coming future which needs rational moves away from sentimental approaches and asks.

[Bananiot]

Hermes, you need to understand that the other side has valid arguments too. Agreed, TMT had an agenda for taksim, this is no secret. They held several public rallies (even in London, calling for partition). The problem is, we played into the hands of TMT. We are responsible for legitimising an unacceptable claim that nobody in the international arena supported. Fair enough, what is past is past, now we have to deal with the current situation as it has been formed. New facts have been created on the ground and our position is very weak, unfortunately, mostly as a result of our past actions, which sadly for us cannot be deleted with the stroke of a pen. This is how the world is run and we should have known better. If we continue, for example, to view the TCs as a minority we will lose the eggs and the basket. At least lets learn from our mistakes in the hope that we can avoid them in the coming future which needs rational moves away from sentimental approaches and asks.

[Hermes]

What is past is past, now we have to deal with the current situation as it has been formed. New facts have been created on the ground and our position is very weak

New facts have indeed been created. Cyprus joined the EU in 2004 and as a result, the international context for an agreement is better defined. Gas reserves have the potential to transform our economy, alter the strategic balance and to enhance our sovereignty. Turkey is no nearer to EU accession despite its belief that it could bully its way into the EU. Recognition, direct-trade, Taiwanisation of the occupied areas are little more than Turkish fantasies. The TCs are restless, fearful of assimilation. These are all facts on the ground. Cyprus needs a solution but so does Turkey and the TCs. If they are not ready yet, we cannot force them. We can only keep up the pressure and it is not as inconsiderable as you think. Our concern is that a solution should satisfy the basic criteria of democracy, human rights, justice and restitution. The Turkish adherence to a legalised taksim is the real obstacle. No-one is fooled anymore. It is time Turkey and the TCs moved on from the 1960s and stopped subjecting us to their outrageous demands.

[Piratis]

The TCs are the 18% of the population and therefore a minority. They created all wars and conflicts in Cyprus in their effort take a far bigger share than what belongs to them on our expense. For as long as they continue to do so they will remain the enemy and will be treated accordingly. We will continue to inflict as many problems and damages to the enemy as possible until the day comes that we will be in position to liberate our lands.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis can you tell us a bit about the GCs role in all the developments that have divided this island?

[repulsewarrior]

No Hermes, there are people who will still kill and murder for enosis, even today. We need to be totally honest about this. Makarios and the Junta of Greece differed only on tactics employed regarding enosis. Makarios saw, albeit vey late, that politically this was not an easy goal to achieve. Papadopoulos (the colonel) agreed with Makarios, but when he was disposed by the hard liner Ioannides, Makarios found himself in a real squeeze. Ioannides wanted Enosis like a bull. Makarios knew that he had to wiggle his way around. Ioannides and EOKA B' with their supporters toppled Makarios and the question now is, whose tactics could have paid off? Those employed by Makarios or the ones employed by the coupists. The latter failed, but Makarios did have a chance, in the long run perhaps, to outwit the Turks. So he thought at least, but his theory wasn't about to be tested, thanks to the coup that accelerated events that could have happened later.

there are people who will still kill and murder for enosis, even today

...this much is true mr. B, respectfully, the rest is conjecture.

We all live in fear of the terrifying insane people like this, who love their mom's and their families their homes and their neighbourhoods,
...while they cut off the nipples of their foe to fill a sack.

"They", don't have to be "Turkish", or "Greek". To be totally honest, as (place your ethnicity here), but as Humans first, this is the Ignorance we must defeat.

...i do not dis Makarios, without him all Cypriots would have been betrayed by the other interlocutors. like Denktash who opened the gates, they are complex individuals. more importantly are the events on the ground right now, and the acts we take for our Freedom.

Bananiot, do you believe in a unified State, having a Federal Government as our Sovereign Representative, defending our Individual Rights, expressing our concerns Internationally as this island's dwellers? Can you live with National Assemblies that sustain the distinctions we have as Persons in our daily lives, so that as Majorities this electorate can provide through self-representation the infrastructure that they desire. Given that all the National Assemblies are equal, and that the electorate of each are equal, and as Citizens of Cyprus they are equal, can you imagine Cypriots as "Greek" or "Turkish" (and maybe "Maronite", and "Armenian") abusing the Minorities amongst them in these National Assemblies?