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A must read for every TC & GC

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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:35 pm

Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:And what about the TCs who opposed this and felt it would be there death warrant? do they not count in the name of human rights? of course they had to fight for survival, the alternative was unthinkable leaving them no choice but to side with the Brits giving them a chance to stop you from gifting the island to Greece.


The TC extremists in the 1960s were not agitating for "human rights". They were agitating, through terrorism, for its opposite: partition and division. That is why the TMT assassinated Turkish Cypriots who were advocating peaceful co-existence. Or are you telling me that the TMT were murdering Turkish Cypriots because these people wanted union with Greece?


What did you expect them to do support your enosis dream and sign their own death warrant? Your terrorists pushed for your enosis dream regardless of what TCs wanted, taksim cam well after enosis but our fight was in reaction to yours, if you had nmot have tried to give Cyprus to Greece we would not have division today.


So why did the TMT kill Turkish Cypriots who were clearly not advocating for union with Greece?


Why were your eoka terrorists killing or beating up innocent GCs for not supporting union with Greece?
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby Hermes » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:51 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Hermes wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:And what about the TCs who opposed this and felt it would be there death warrant? do they not count in the name of human rights? of course they had to fight for survival, the alternative was unthinkable leaving them no choice but to side with the Brits giving them a chance to stop you from gifting the island to Greece.


The TC extremists in the 1960s were not agitating for "human rights". They were agitating, through terrorism, for its opposite: partition and division. That is why the TMT assassinated Turkish Cypriots who were advocating peaceful co-existence. Or are you telling me that the TMT were murdering Turkish Cypriots because these people wanted union with Greece?


What did you expect them to do support your enosis dream and sign their own death warrant? Your terrorists pushed for your enosis dream regardless of what TCs wanted, taksim cam well after enosis but our fight was in reaction to yours, if you had nmot have tried to give Cyprus to Greece we would not have division today.


So why did the TMT kill Turkish Cypriots who were clearly not advocating for union with Greece?


Why were your eoka terrorists killing or beating up innocent GCs for not supporting union with Greece?


Greek Cypriots suspected of being allied to the colonial forces and those believed to be informants were targeted. After the struggle it was also suggested that some GCs were targeted for their political affiliations. AKEL and EOKA veteran fighters have both been outspoken on this issue.

So do you think the TMT were killing TC activists because they wanted union with Greece? It's just that you claimed that the TMT were opposed to those who wanted enosis.
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby Viewpoint » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:58 pm

Just as there were Gcs that opposed or held differing views from the eoka terrorists and were killed there were also TCs who also had differing views to that of TMT who were targeted, this does not mean they supported enosis.
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby humanist » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:28 pm

not all Greek speaking Cypriots supported Enosis and not many participated in the coup to achieve this. They did not succeed and thats the end of that. The Turkish of Cyprus however, has lasted and is continuing for the past 35 years.
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby kurupetos » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:56 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Just as there were Gcs that opposed or held differing views from the eoka terrorists and were killed there were also TCs who also had differing views to that of TMT who were targeted, this does not mean they supported enosis.

They vast majority of GCs supported enosis, as the people of Rhodes, Crete, etc. did in the past.
What's so strange about that? :?
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:40 am

kurupetos wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Just as there were Gcs that opposed or held differing views from the eoka terrorists and were killed there were also TCs who also had differing views to that of TMT who were targeted, this does not mean they supported enosis.

They vast majority of GCs supported enosis, as the people of Rhodes, Crete, etc. did in the past.
What's so strange about that? :?



Just that we were never a Greek island, never were never will be.
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:08 am

...that implies that Cypriots were something else, and that these People indigenous were not Turcophones, although within their History they remain(ed) under Turkey's subjugation for about 350 years. This island's dwellers have been Grecophone for thousands of years, but in that sense you are implying that Greek as a language has had its influence replaced by English, only recently within this timeframe.

...Cyprus may never have been Greek as you say, but by the same reasoning it was never Turkish either.

To the Turks, it was a backwater with its residents dismissed, of no consequence, a possession, nothing more, until the Modern Age where it was lost through the Treaty of Lausanne, and when suddenly it represented property of value because of its location (an unsinkable aircraft carrier to the interlocutor who wins it).

...to Cypriots this gift of Freedom from Humanity is a way to end the Proxy War "Greeks" and "Turks" play; perhaps VP you are no Turk, and your generalisations about Greeks, as "Greeks" indicates this.
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby kimon07 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:38 am

[quote="AlanwithoneL]

The fact that nobody is coming to your aid should be a clear strong message to you and your community. I interpret their refusal to intervene as approval of the TC's and Turkeys stance in the Cyprus problem. How do you interpret it?


So, as far as you are concerned nobody comes to OUR aid (i.e., the aid of us GCs)....."

You therefore mean that YOU (TCs) do not need or wish to be aided cause you do not have any problem with how things are? Interesting stance and very contradictory to what you are trying to pose as representing in your postings. Noted:

Now. The reason that "nobody" cares about what Turkey and the TCs are doing in Cyprus (violation of the international law, of the UN resolutions, of the the human rights of Cypriots and of the EU territory and acquis etc), is due to the fact that the incompetent leaderships of Greece and Cyprus are not taking the initiative to do the most simple and effective thing they could, especially after Cyprus's admission to the EU. To start bringing the case up again and again to the UN, the EU and to all other international fora, demanding the IMPLEMENTATION of existing UN and EU resolutions on the issue. And to keep on embarassing the UN and the International Community for doing nothing while they pretend to be so bout freedom mand democracy in oil reach parts of the world.

The US and EU leaderships would not bother to "come to the aid " of a small Island as long as the interested parties themselves (such as the government of Cyprus, the government of Greece and the two communities together) do not bother to bring it up to them under the light of the true nature of the problem (illegal occupation/separation - defiance of International Law and of the UN resolutions etc).

I bet, the US and the EU would start shaking in their boots if the CY government was to announce that due to the behavior of Turkey and the TC administration, it withdraws from the talks with the TCs and it proceeds, in cooperation with Cypriot and foreign specialists to the drafting of a new constitution to submit to the UN and the EU for advise and suggestions and to be used as the basis of any future discussions related to the constitutional status of Cyprus. And that it would return to the negotiations AFTER the complete withdrawal of Turkey from the Island.
As for this particular leg of the problem, i.e., the Turkish presence on the Island, CY should simply demand from the UN and the EU to set a time limit to Turkey for the termination of the occupation and the withdrawal of its troops and settlers, OR ELSE!
You can not get anything if you do not ask for it. All we have to do is ASK, or rather DEMAND. Do TCs care to help?? This is the question. Is the TC community prepared to file a collective petition to the international fora for the withdrawal of Turkey from the Island? Do you dare to hold an unofficial referendum about this or ask your administration to hold an official one? EH?? And send the results to the UN and the EU demanding implementation? Do you DARE even think of this, let alone ask for it?? (or do you still dread the TMT and the "Gray Wolves" waiting for you around the corner in the dark?)
P.S.1Are you prepared to accept a "European" and democratic solution to the problem or do you insist to have your own sovereign state in the North which will be in reality a province of Turkey?
P.S.2Are you determined to be free again in your own country or have you decided to give it over to the Anatolians who are already "breathing heavily down your necks"?
P.S.3 How about posting and errecting the previous two questions in TC school classrooms and public areas?.
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby Viewpoint » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:33 pm

Kimyon
Now. The reason that "nobody" cares about what Turkey and the TCs are doing in Cyprus (violation of the international law, of the UN resolutions, of the the human rights of Cypriots and of the EU territory and acquis etc), is due to the fact that the incompetent leaderships of Greece and Cyprus are not taking the initiative to do the most simple and effective thing they could, especially after Cyprus's admission to the EU. To start bringing the case up again and again to the UN, the EU and to all other international fora, demanding the IMPLEMENTATION of existing UN and EU resolutions on the issue. And to keep on embarassing the UN and the International Community for doing nothing while they pretend to be so bout freedom mand democracy in oil reach parts of the world.


The US and EU leaderships would not bother to "come to the aid " of a small Island as long as the interested parties themselves (such as the government of Cyprus, the government of Greece and the two communities together) do not bother to bring it up to them under the light of the true nature of the problem (illegal occupation/separation - defiance of International Law and of the UN resolutions etc).


Do you really believe they have not already tried this, for gods sake they complain about the birds that fly over the TRNC dont you think they have been bombarding all and sundry to implement what you want, the reason it falls on deaf eyes is because you are also to blame for the current situation and they can now clearly see that your intentions are not for the good of all the people of the island and that the Tcs also have a rights which cannot be pushed to one side as you demand.

I bet, the US and the EU would start shaking in their boots if the CY government was to announce that due to the behavior of Turkey and the TC administration, it withdraws from the talks with the TCs and it proceeds, in cooperation with Cypriot and foreign specialists to the drafting of a new constitution to submit to the UN and the EU for advise and suggestions and to be used as the basis of any future discussions related to the constitutional status of Cyprus. And that it would return to the negotiations AFTER the complete withdrawal of Turkey from the Island.
As for this particular leg of the problem, i.e., the Turkish presence on the Island, CY should simply demand from the UN and the EU to set a time limit to Turkey for the termination of the occupation and the withdrawal of its troops and settlers, OR ELSE!


Its simply called not having the balls.

You can not get anything if you do not ask for it. All we have to do is ASK, or rather DEMAND. Do TCs care to help?? This is the question. Is the TC community prepared to file a collective petition to the international fora for the withdrawal of Turkey from the Island? Do you dare to hold an unofficial referendum about this or ask your administration to hold an official one? EH?? And send the results to the UN and the EU demanding implementation? Do you DARE even think of this, let alone ask for it?? (or do you still dread the TMT and the "Gray Wolves" waiting for you around the corner in the dark?)


I found this very interesting, can you please explain why we should do this? what will motivate the TCs to stand up and say we want to unite with GCs and Turkey please go home?

P.S.1Are you prepared to accept a "European" and democratic solution to the problem or do you insist to have your own sovereign state in the North which will be in reality a province of Turkey?


Under the current circumstances and without any clear cut details of how the TCs will develop and prosper in the EU with GCs a referendum will reveal that the second option is preferred, better the devil you know.

P.S.2Are you determined to be free again in your own country or have you decided to give it over to the Anatolians who are already "breathing heavily down your necks"?


We have never been free if its not the GCs its the Turks all we have is the choice between the two and you obviously know who came in second.

P.S.3 How about posting and errecting the previous two questions in TC school classrooms and public areas?.


This can be done if the TCs really believe in what they are fighting for, give us the incentives and we will definitely fight for an outcome.
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Re: A must read for every TC & GC

Postby kimon07 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:18 pm

Well, VP, you gave me precisely the answers and comments I expected from you and those who share your opinions.
Now, can you explain why 64,6% of Turkish Cypriots voted against the Annan Plan in 2004 just like the GCs did, and why the Anatolians voted Yes? And why Denktash and Turkey rejected Annan Plan 2 in 2002 while the GC leadership was prepared to sign it?
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