Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

History of Turkey.

“The history of the Turks begins with the migration of Oghuz Turks[1] into Anatolia in the context of the larger Turkic expansion, forming the Seljuq Empire in the 11th century.[2] After the Seljuq victory over forces of the Byzantine Empire in 1071 at the Battle of Manzikert,[3] the process was accelerated and the country was referred to as 'Turchia' in Europe as early as the 12th century.…….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Turkey


The Origins of the Turks.

“It is accepted that the first Turkish people were native to a region extending from Central Asia to Siberia,…….”
“In the historical times, the main migration of Turkish peoples occurred between the 5th and 10th centuries AD, when they spread across most of Central Asia and into Europe and the Middle East from their homeland in western China.[9] Migrations in the pre-historical (pre-literate) times are deduced from archeological and osteological indicators……..”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ic_peoples.

Question:

Can anyone seriously believe that the Turkish masses of Asia Minor who kept migrating in it till even the 1500s, have become Europeans just because Mustafa Kemal changed their alphabet in the early 1900s??
No doubt, as was Mustafa Kemal himself a European born Turk of non Mongolic descent, (born in Greece) there is today in Turkey a minority of "European" Turks (similar to the native Turkish Cypriots) i.e., the ones descended from the Muslim populations of mainland Greece, Crete, Bosnia, Albania, Bulgaria etc, who moved to Turkey during or after the Greek War of Independence as well as during or after the Balkan Wars (1912-13) and the first World War (the massive exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey, of about 1.500.000 Greeks from Turkey to Greece and about 800.000 Muslims of Greece to Turkey).
But can they make the difference being a drop in the ocean of Turkic tribes of Asia Minor? Can we, Europeans, afford to have these masses infesting our cities and "breathing down our necks" as one forumer put it recently?

[supporttheunderdog]

Stories of mass migrations are sometimes overstated: for example stories of mass migartion of Celtic folk to places like Ireland have now been discounted: the DNA evidence suggest that in eg Ireland there has been little mass immigration since the Island was settled at the end of Last Glacial Maximum about 12000 years back.

In some cases relatively small numbers of successful invaders have achieved military domination followed by cultural supremacy, with a process known as Elite dominance language replacement , and in many cases peoples have adopted new technology (eg farming) by learning from their neighbors/traders etc.,

Turkey is similar - archeogenetic research tends to show that by and large the Turkish Haplotypes tend to show only limited genetic input from the 10th Century Turkic invaders. Therefore the reality is that many people now called Tur*s are probably principally descended from the aboriginal Anatolian who filled the area after the end of the last Glacial Maximum up to the neolithic times. Some think there may have been an Anatolian refuge population who stayed in the area through out the LGM , while others surmise that the area was repopulated from the middle east/fertile Crescent /Levant coast as much of Europe was.

In some places the tribes apparently have oral tribal histories which describe things like the passage of Alexander the Great through the area, suggesting their ancestors were there at least 2300 years back, i.e 1300 years before the Turkic invaders arrived from Central Asia.

The majority of Tur* are not therefore descended from their claimed ancestors.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_Turkish_people

There are other sites with similar reports.

That does not make the Turks European as they are principally still what Helsingfors has crudely called Middle-eastern in Origin while Turkey has peddled a myth to its people about a Pan-Turkic nationalism based on Central Asian Origins and nin any event being European is more than about either genos orv geography, but a question of attitude .

They probably need another dose of cultural re-education to even make them even begin to Think like Europeans: anyone here specialise in mental re-arrangements?

[yialousa1971]

Father of all Turks

Man's greatest joy is to slay his enemy,
plunder his riches, ride his steeds, see
the tears of his loved ones and embrace
his women.
-- Genghis Khan

"Proud" Heritage Of Turks
The peoples of the Caucasus


The Caucasian Mongoloids

- the Balkar and Karachai
- the Nogais
- the Karapapak
- the Caucasian Osmanli
- the Turkoman
- the Kumyck

Mongol tribes

- the Kalmuck
- the Kaitak

The Mongoloids of Asia and Europe

Finnic tribes

- the Ugrians
- Western Finns
- Baltic Finns
- the Permians
- the Bulgarian Finns
- the Chuvash
- Slavonized Finns
- the Lapps

The Samoyed

The Turkic tribes

- the Yakut
- the Tatars of Tobolsk
- the Tatars of Tomsk
- the Altain Tatars
- the Karagas

The Mongolic tribes

- the Buryat

The Tungus

[supporttheunderdog]

Father of all Turks

Man's greatest joy is to slay his enemy,
plunder his riches, ride his steeds, see
the tears of his loved ones and embrace
his women.
-- Genghis Khan

"Proud" Heritage Of Turks
The peoples of the Caucasus


The Mongoloids of Asia and Europe

Finnic tribes

- the Ugrians
- Western Finns
- Baltic Finns
- the Permians
- the Bulgarian Finns
- the Chuvash
- Slavonized Finns
- the Lapps

i have to take issue with you on the Finns: the theory that they are linked to Ataic/Turkic peoples was poopular in the 19th Century but has been discredited by modern genetic studies.

[quote="Wikipedia"]Recently, the use of mitochondrial (female lineage) and Y-chromosomal (male lineage) DNA-markers in tracing back the history of human populations has been started . For the paternal and maternal genetic lineages of Finnish people and other peoples, see, e.g., the National Geographic Genographic Project and the Suomi DNA-projekti. In essence, the types of mtDNA markers of Finnish people do not differ from those of other European ethnicities.[37] For example, Haplogroup U5 is estimated to be the oldest mtDNA haplogroup in Europe and is found in the whole of Europe at a low frequency, but seems to be found in significantly higher levels among Finns, Estonians and the Sami.[38] Of modern nationalities, Finns are closest to Cro-Magnons in terms of anthropological measurements.[39]

With regard to the Y-chromosome, the most common haplogroups of the Finns are N1c (58%), I (29%), R1a (7.5%) and R1b (3.5%).[40] Haplogroup N1c, which is found only in a few countries in Europe (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Sweden and Russia), is a subgroup of the haplogroup N (Y-DNA) distributed across northern Eurasia and estimated in a recent study to be 10,000–20,000 years old and suggested to have entered Europe about 12,000–14,000 years ago from Asia.[41]

According to an earlier study conducted by four scientists, including Cavalli-Sforza LL:

Principal coordinate analysis shows that Lapps/Sami are almost exactly intermediate between people located geographically near the Ural mountains and speaking Uralic languages, and central and northern Europeans. Hungarians and Finns are definitely closer to Europeans. An analysis of genetic admixture between Uralic and European ancestors shows that Lapps/Sami are slightly more than 50% European, Hungarians are 87% European, and Finns are 90% European. There is basic agreement between these conclusions and historical data on Hungary. Less is known about Finns and very little about Lapps/Sami.[42]

According to recent autosomal (genomewide, 10,000 markers instead of few looked at Y-DNA and MtDNA-studies) give distinct picture of Finnish genes. It could be said that all other Europeans have Finnish genes but Finns don't have all the genes found in other Europeans. Finns show very little if any Mediterranean and African genes but on the other hand almost 10% of Finnish genes seem to be shared with some Siberian populations. Nevertheless more than 80% of Finnish genes are from a single ancient North-European population, while most Europeans are a mixture of 3 or more principal components.[43]
[unquote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns

[RichardB]

Well STUD thats asclear as mud to me

[yialousa1971]

Father of all Turks

Man's greatest joy is to slay his enemy,
plunder his riches, ride his steeds, see
the tears of his loved ones and embrace
his women.
-- Genghis Khan

"Proud" Heritage Of Turks
The peoples of the Caucasus


The Mongoloids of Asia and Europe

Finnic tribes

- the Ugrians
- Western Finns
- Baltic Finns
- the Permians
- the Bulgarian Finns
- the Chuvash
- Slavonized Finns
- the Lapps

i have to take issue with you on the Finns: the theory that they are linked to Ataic/Turkic peoples was poopular in the 19th Century but has been discredited by modern genetic studies.

Recently, the use of mitochondrial (female lineage) and Y-chromosomal (male lineage) DNA-markers in tracing back the history of human populations has been started . For the paternal and maternal genetic lineages of Finnish people and other peoples, see, e.g., the National Geographic Genographic Project and the Suomi DNA-projekti. In essence, the types of mtDNA markers of Finnish people do not differ from those of other European ethnicities.[37] For example, Haplogroup U5 is estimated to be the oldest mtDNA haplogroup in Europe and is found in the whole of Europe at a low frequency, but seems to be found in significantly higher levels among Finns, Estonians and the Sami.[38] Of modern nationalities, Finns are closest to Cro-Magnons in terms of anthropological measurements.[39]

With regard to the Y-chromosome, the most common haplogroups of the Finns are N1c (58%), I (29%), R1a (7.5%) and R1b (3.5%).[40] Haplogroup N1c, which is found only in a few countries in Europe (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Sweden and Russia), is a subgroup of the haplogroup N (Y-DNA) distributed across northern Eurasia and estimated in a recent study to be 10,000–20,000 years old and suggested to have entered Europe about 12,000–14,000 years ago from Asia.[41]

According to an earlier study conducted by four scientists, including Cavalli-Sforza LL:

Principal coordinate analysis shows that Lapps/Sami are almost exactly intermediate between people located geographically near the Ural mountains and speaking Uralic languages, and central and northern Europeans. Hungarians and Finns are definitely closer to Europeans. An analysis of genetic admixture between Uralic and European ancestors shows that Lapps/Sami are slightly more than 50% European, Hungarians are 87% European, and Finns are 90% European. There is basic agreement between these conclusions and historical data on Hungary. Less is known about Finns and very little about Lapps/Sami.[42]

According to recent autosomal (genomewide, 10,000 markers instead of few looked at Y-DNA and MtDNA-studies) give distinct picture of Finnish genes. It could be said that all other Europeans have Finnish genes but Finns don't have all the genes found in other Europeans. Finns show very little if any Mediterranean and African genes but on the other hand almost 10% of Finnish genes seem to be shared with some Siberian populations. Nevertheless more than 80% of Finnish genes are from a single ancient North-European population, while most Europeans are a mixture of 3 or more principal components.[43]
[unquote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns

Will you sort your spelling out. Finns have mongol blood and so do many other Northern Europeans/Eastern Europeans. They got this Mongol DNA because they lived/mixed with the Lapps/Sami. Some Mongol/European mixed people below:-






Finns come from Asia, same as Germanics and Slavs thats why all the Nordists are from these so called Nordic countries like England, Sweden, Germany, FYROM, Bulgaria, Anglo America etc. They couldn't take it they have some Mongol or Jewish blood etc. so they try to say Southern Europeans are mixed.

[humanist]

In my view the Turks are those people of Turkey. And those Cypriots who have not been able to develop their unique identity and feel that living in an open prison created by Turkey on the Cyprus Isle are Turks. They are the people who are denying their young the opportunity to be European citizens.

[Bananiot]

What in heaven are you talking about?

[GreekIslandGirl]

The more recent genetic findings strongly associate the Muslim Turks with Asian origins/intermixing:


Gene. 2005 Sep 12;357(2):95-102.
Genetic features of Khoton Mongolians revealed by SNP analysis of the X chromosome.
Katoh T, Mano S, Munkhbat B, Tounai K, Oyungerel G, Chae GT, Han H, Jia GJ, Tokunaga K, Munkhtuvshin N, Tamiya G, Inoko H.
Source
Molecular Life Science, School of Medicine, Tokai University, Bohseidai, Isehara, Kanagawa, 259-1193, Japan.
Abstract
The Khoton Mongolian population is a small and relatively isolated ethnic group residing predominantly in the northwestern part of Mongolia. A recent genetic study of the Y chromosome revealed that the major Mongolian ethnic groups have a relatively close genetic affinity to populations in the northern part of East Asia, while the Khoton population reflected an apparent genetic differentiation from the other Mongolian populations. To further investigate the genetic features of the Khoton and the other Mongolian populations, we analyzed the single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in the Xq13.3 region, which is thought to have an extremely low level of recombination in the human X chromosome. We found that the frequency distribution of Xq13.3 haplotypes in the Khoton population was substantially different from those in three other Mongolian populations (Khalkh, Uriankhai, and Zakhchin). The same relationship was also revealed by the results from the population tree and principal-component (PC) analysis based on the allele frequencies. These results are largely consistent with the hypothesis that the Khoton population descended from a nomadic tribe of Turkish origin, which has been supported by previous anthropological, historical, and Y-chromosome studies. However, the population structure analysis produced an additional finding, namely, that the Khoton population is likely to be an admixed population.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Neurogenetics. 2009 Jul;10(3):271-3. Epub 2009 Jan 27.
A LRRK2 G2019S mutation carrier from Turkey shares the Japanese haplotype.
Pirkevi C, Lesage S, Condroyer C, Tomiyama H, Hattori N, Ertan S, Brice A, Başak AN.
Source
Molecular Biology and Genetics Department, Neurodegeneration Research Laboratory, Boğaziçi University, 34342 Istanbul, Turkey.
Abstract
The leucine-rich repeat kinase 2 (LRRK2) G2019S mutation is recognized as the most common cause of familial autosomal dominant and also sporadic forms of Parkinson disease (PD). A common founder has been described for most Europeans and all North Africans and Jews; besides, two distinct G2019S LRRK2 haplotypes were found in a small proportion of European families and in Japanese PD patients. This study revealed a Turkish patient heterozygous for the G2019S mutation sharing the Japanese haplotype. To the best of our knowledge, it is the first time that the G2019S-associated Japanese haplotype has been reported in a different population.