Cyprus-Forum.com

[aikhme]

Someone recently made this comment in another thread. This assiduous banana oil from a member posting under the nom de plume of Bananiot still resonates in my mind.

That is grand! Very nice sounding solution proposition, the best in my opinion. Now, tell us how we can achieve this. The practical way to go forward to get to this solution. You need to satisfy all the political parties in our side, which, with the exception of the nationalist EVROKO and fascist ELAM, have conceded that the only feasible solution is BBF. Show me a way forward and I will jump on your band wagon. All I am asking is a realistic and viable way to achieve what you say, which is of course miles better than what we got in 1959 too.

I think what you are saying is just plain populist jargon without any substance because it is the desirable you after and not only this but, as history teaches us, going like mules after the desirable, can only bring more losses and pain.

I then replied to the banana oil from the misguided Bananiot with the following;

Your posts within this thread appear quite insipid. They lack basic principles and values which have been fought for in many nations. Before you continue on this debate, you need to cease these disingenuous ramblings and do some soul searching from within. You need to reconcile whether you wish to legalise the present partition of Cyprus to another de jure state of affairs which violate Europe's basic freedoms, namely:

Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected and protected

Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in these cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest

Everyone is equal before the law

Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited

Within the scope of application of the Treaty establishing the European Community and of the Treaty on European Union, and without prejudice to the special provisions of those Treaties, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited

Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States

Freedom of movement and residence may be granted, in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, to nationals of third countries legally resident in the territory of a Member State

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_en.pdf

So Mr. Bananiot, can you elucidate, or provide us with more entertaining banana oil?

I sincerely hope you can elucidate, and accept the above as very core values that are ESSENTIAL to a lasting solution to the Cyprus Problem.

[Hermes]

I then replied to the banana oil from the misguided Bananiot with the following;

Your posts within this thread appear quite insipid. They lack basic principles and values which have been fought for in many nations.

Yes, that sounds like Bananiot allright.

[Bananiot]

Why do you pick on me aikhme? This is jolly unsporting of you, one has to say. All I said is that the major political parties in Cyprus (DISI, AKEL, DIKO and EDEK) have agreed with the proposal of Makarios to accept BBF as the only possible solution for the Cyprus issue, under the circumstances. If you or indeed Hermes, has a better idea, let us hear about it and I will put my signature under it, provided it is a feasible one that we can go for it. I remind you, every time we went for the desirable, we ended up crying over ruins.

[kurupetos]

Why do you pick on me aikhme? This is jolly unsporting of you, one has to say. All I said is that the major political parties in Cyprus (DISI, AKEL, DIKO and EDEK) have agreed with the proposal of Makarios to accept BBF as the only possible solution for the Cyprus issue, under the circumstances. If you or indeed Hermes, has a better idea, let us hear about it and I will put my signature under it, provided it is a feasible one that we can go for it. I remind you, every time we went for the desirable, we ended up crying over ruins.

I will logout and cry then.

[aikhme]

Why do you pick on me aikhme? This is jolly unsporting of you, one has to say. All I said is that the major political parties in Cyprus (DISI, AKEL, DIKO and EDEK) have agreed with the proposal of Makarios to accept BBF as the only possible solution for the Cyprus issue, under the circumstances. If you or indeed Hermes, has a better idea, let us hear about it and I will put my signature under it, provided it is a feasible one that we can go for it. I remind you, every time we went for the desirable, we ended up crying over ruins.

My dear fellow,

you wrote the following;

The flag on Pendadaktylos is still there to remind us of some bitter truths and the fallacy of those that convinced the majority of people not to go for solution in 2003-2004 because "the EU would secure for us a European solution".

cyprus36221-50.html

And this;

The Annan Plan was debated a great deal here in this forum and elsewhere. One needs to take into account the period before the referendum when the late Papadopoulos won the elections on the promise that he will work hard to solve the Cyprob on the basis of the Annan plan. In the beginning, after he was voted in, he showed a lot of urgency towards this effect and went so far as to send an urgent message to the UN General Secretary (Dc 2003) asking him to arbitrate between the two sides. After this, he did his best to ensure that the Annan plan was as bad as it could get for our side (refused staunchly to ask for Karpasia etc, when it was there for the taking) so that he would ask for a huge "no", especially after the plan was daemonised by all those that did not want a solution based on BBF. He promised the GCs that a better plan was to come from the EU and thus there was no need to vote for the AP.

My problem with this is that the Cyprus problem remains unsolved and those who do not stomach BBF have nothing else to put forward that could be described as a feasible and practical way forward. We are hopelessly stuck in the impasse that has prevailed since and as all sensible politicians across the political spectrum often remind us, the situation gets worse as time goes by. The idea that we can wait for the balance of power to change is frightening and it is a nightmare scenario for all Cypriots as this will no doubt lead to the Turkification of Cyprus.

Like I said to Piratis, if you have any idea of how we can go forward, let us have it and we can debate it.

cyprus36221-110.html

if you have any idea of how we can go forward, let us have it and we can debate it.

I gave you my answer. Do you find my answer acceptable?

Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected and protected

Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in these cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest

Everyone is equal before the law

Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited

Within the scope of application of the Treaty establishing the European Community and of the Treaty on European Union, and without prejudice to the special provisions of those Treaties, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited

Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States

Freedom of movement and residence may be granted, in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, to nationals of third countries legally resident in the territory of a Member State

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_en.pdf

Now do you agree that these core values are ESSENTIAL to a lasting solution? Or do you deem this as aiming for the desirable and unachievable?

The way you answer can have very severe imputations on your character, and your values and principles in life, the very same values and principles which made the Annan Plan unacceptable to the majority.

I do not pick on you, but if we do not hold common values in something ever so important, then I reserve my rights to pick on your questionable values as an individual.

[Bananiot]

Yes, one would expect a kurupetos to do just that ....

[Hermes]

If you or indeed Hermes, has a better idea, let us hear about it and I will put my signature under it, provided it is a feasible one that we can go for it. I remind you, every time we went for the desirable, we ended up crying over ruins.

Just so that we're talking about the same thing: Do you reject Eroglus' recent statements that an eventual solution of the Cyprus problem would be considered as primary EU legislation and would contain permanent exceptions to the acquis? Or do you accept that as the Republic of Cyprus became an EU member on the basis of Protocol 10, this in turn constitutes the basis on which various issues arising from the solution of the Cyprus problem will be dealt with?

In other words, that we should not accept any permanent derogations to accompany the solution of the Cyprus problem, and that any exceptions will not be permanent and will be limited in number and duration?

[aikhme]

CONSIDERING that the European Union is ready to accommodate the terms of such a settlement in line with the principles on which the EU is founded

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... /10:EN:NOT

And the founding principles are;

http://europa.eu/scadplus/constitution/ ... htm#RIGHTS

here is a snippet;

Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected and protected

Everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions. No one may be deprived of his or her possessions, except in the public interest and in these cases and under the conditions provided for by law, subject to fair compensation being paid in good time for their loss. The use of property may be regulated by law in so far as is necessary for the general interest

Everyone is equal before the law

Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited

Within the scope of application of the Treaty establishing the European Community and of the Treaty on European Union, and without prejudice to the special provisions of those Treaties, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited

Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States

Freedom of movement and residence may be granted, in accordance with the Treaty establishing the European Community, to nationals of third countries legally resident in the territory of a Member State

Bananiot, do you accept these core principles?

[-mikkie2-]

If you or indeed Hermes, has a better idea, let us hear about it and I will put my signature under it, provided it is a feasible one that we can go for it. I remind you, every time we went for the desirable, we ended up crying over ruins.

Just so that we're talking about the same thing: Do you reject Eroglus' recent statements that an eventual solution of the Cyprus problem would be considered as primary EU legislation and would contain permanent exceptions to the acquis? Or do you accept that as the Republic of Cyprus became an EU member on the basis of Protocol 10, this in turn constitutes the basis on which various issues arising from the solution of the Cyprus problem will be dealt with?

In other words, that we should not accept any permanent derogations to accompany the solution of the Cyprus problem, and that any exceptions will not be permanent and will be limited in number and duration?

Cyprus is already fully in the EU, warts and all. Eroglu is pissing in the wind with this one. Changes to the EU aqcuis on the terms Eroglu wants simply will not happen because it would need ratification by all member states and it would also open pandoras box. What would stop other countries re-negotiating their terms of entry? It simply wont happen.

So basically, there is no point discussing this. We could also keep discussing the ideal solution and quoting the EU aqcuis ad infinitum. Whatever the solution, in the fulness of time, EU law will eventually prevail. And in any case, with the problems inherent in the EU at the moment, greater integration will be the inevitable result anyway.

So in both respects, Bananiots arguments as well as yours are pointless!

[Hermes]

Cyprus is already fully in the EU, warts and all. Eroglu is pissing in the wind with this one. Changes to the EU aqcuis on the terms Eroglu wants simply will not happen because it would need ratification by all member states and it would also open pandoras box. What would stop other countries re-negotiating their terms of entry? It simply wont happen.

So basically, there is no point discussing this. We could also keep discussing the ideal solution and quoting the EU aqcuis ad infinitum. Whatever the solution, in the fulness of time, EU law will eventually prevail. And in any case, with the problems inherent in the EU at the moment, greater integration will be the inevitable result anyway.

So in both respects, Bananiots arguments as well as yours are pointless!

Which argument are you referring to? I haven't made any argument beyond pointing out that Cyprus acceded to the EU as a full member. As result any solution is subject to EU law and derogations can only be limited and temporary. I was enquiring whether Bananiot accepts that this is the only feasible way forward. And whether he agrees that Eroglu is "pissing in the wind" as you put it. I'd like to hear it from him, if you don't mind.