Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

Do you believe that because of the presence of a few fascists in both communities the island should remain effectively partitioned and the Turkish Cypriots kept isolated from the rest of the people of the island?

This is where the hypocrite, Bananiot, suddenly believes in going after "the desirable" (zero fascists anywhere) instead of "the feasible" (a few nutcases around).

I really believe that Bananiot's nihilism and cynicism means he has more in common with the fascists who want to live in an apartheid system than he realises. His solution is ultimately separation, derogations, time-adjustments. In effect, apartheid. The two communities should be kept separate because they are naturally antagonistic - exactly the position of the fascists, reactionaries and the Grey Wolves.

Bananiot portrays himself as a progressive but he never speaks about human rights, nothing about overcoming prejudice through accepting the principles of the EU acquis. The opposite in fact. We should do away with human rights as we have forfeited any claim to them! Nothing but cynicism and despair.

In fact, his position now is that Cypriots need to be kept apart because of the presence of fascist idiots in their midst! I really despair at such nihilism and lack of faith in humanity. It's a deeply pessimistic and reactionary outlook which leads to the same conclusions as the fascists he routinely claims he despises! Keep Cyprus divided - the goal of the Turks, the British, the fascists and also of Bananiot!

[Kikapu]

Bananiot,

The only problem with your reasoning with the above is, unless there is a settlement based on EU Principles, you are not going to get rid of Turkey or the settlers as you hope and wish to do,

Had the EU had any principles they would’ve insisted on the decades old UN resolutions and never gone along with undemocratic and racist community arrangements!

I agree, but be patient, because I also believe the EU is taking the "Lets give Peace a chance" attitude since Turkey is a neighbour, a NATO member and a EU membership candidate. The hope is Turkey will do the right thing in the end. In the meantime, the EU has made Turkey dependent on the EU for 50% of her exports. Just like a drug addict, the EU has become Turkey's next fix. Just like a drug pusher, the EU has become Turkey's next supplier. Once the EU cuts Turkey off her export market, just like an addict, Turkey will start climbing the walls in desperation in needing the next fix. The EU now in essence owns the control of Turkey's export economy. Turkey has allowed her economy to be dependent on the EU. In time, the EU will dictate to Turkey what she should do in regards to Cyprus once "Lets give Peace a chance" has not worked.

[Pyrpolizer]

The fact is that ANY solution that will pass a yes vote will automatically become EU aquis.

Bananiot says we need a solution (ANY SOLUTION) just to make a start in re-uniting the island.

The question is whether the Cypriots and especially the Kypreoi will vote for that kind of ANY SOLUTION?
Not because the Kypreoi are some geniuses who know what the Aquis says, but simply because they are not stupid to know that losing their properties and getting a disguised partition like the Anan plan is not right.

NB. That was really funny GR! You are becoming an expert in cursing your newbie selves

[Pyrpolizer]

Do you believe that because of the presence of a few fascists in both communities the island should remain effectively partitioned and the Turkish Cypriots kept isolated from the rest of the people of the island?

This is where the hypocrite, Bananiot, suddenly believes in going after "the desirable" (zero fascists anywhere) instead of "the feasible" (a few nutcases around).

I really believe that Bananiot's nihilism and cynicism means he has more in common with the fascists who want to live in an apartheid system than he realises. His solution is ultimately separation, derogations, time-adjustments. In effect, apartheid. The two communities should be kept separate because they are naturally antagonistic - exactly the position of the fascists, reactionaries and the Grey Wolves.

Bananiot portrays himself as a progressive but he never speaks about human rights, nothing about overcoming prejudice through accepting the principles of the EU acquis. The opposite in fact. We should do away with human rights as we have forfeited any claim to them! Nothing but cynicism and despair.

In fact, his position now is that Cypriots need to be kept apart because of the presence of fascist idiots in their midst! I really despair at such nihilism and lack of faith in humanity. It's a deeply pessimistic and reactionary outlook which leads to the same conclusions as the fascists he routinely claims he despises! Keep Cyprus divided - the goal of the Turks, the British, the fascists and also of Bananiot!

While I deeply disagree with Bananiot, I wouldn't strike out the possibility that the Kypreoi would eventually vote yes for a disguised apartheid
system with derogations, time-adjustments etc. The Kypreoi look at their self interests first. If their own individual interests (as they see them) are MET they would care less for the rest.
Like I said before as long as the solution gets a yes vote, it's over, it becomes Eu aquis.

It does not become Primary though, and any Cypriot could of sue the New Cypriot State to EU courts for noncompliance to human rights etc.
That's the reason the Anan Plan wanted the solution to become Primary Aquis (how, only God knows) so that nobody could challenge it at EU courts

[Kikapu]

You are not fair Kikapu. This has been my stance since day one in this forum. Surely you have read my views on many occasions in numerous threads. While you recognise the presence of fascists of the north, you seem to pay total disrespect to the fascists of the south. The Turk haters for whom the only good Turk is a dead Turk. These people are just as dangerous as they were in 1963 and live only for the day they will get their own back.

I'm not saying you do not want a settlement based on EU acquis, Bananiot. All I'm saying is, you tend to push for the undesirable settlement just because it may be easier than the desirable one, that's all.

As for the fascists in the south, you deal with them, since they belong to your community, which is more effective when is done by a member from the same community than from onother community member and I'll deal with the facists in the north whom belong to my community. For me, facists are facists no matter from which communit they come from.

Practically speaking we need a transition period of some years, perhaps decades, before what you describe can have realistic chances of happening. We are paying for the sins of the past because in international affairs bills are always paid. Thus, your idea Kikapu that all we need is to create a common front with the TCs and ask for a European solution, is easier said than done. Unfortunately this is not realistic and if we had to wait until such conditions are met, it will be far too late for all of us. We need solution "yesterday" even if it is not the best we deserve, otherwise all will be lost for ever!

I'm sorry, Bananiot, but the last undesirable settlement agreed on has brought on 50 years of bad results. What makes you think another undesirable agreements now for a settlement will be any better or any less than another 50 years of bad results. In fact, any undesirable settlement agreement with another AP, not only you can kiss the north goodbye, but you can kiss the rest of Cyprus goodbye also to Turkey. Fortunately, now that Cyprus is in the EU, another AP type of settlement will not be allowed. Why do you think Eroglu does not want a "FEDERATION" any more but two separate sovereign states instead, which is exactly what the AP 2004 would have produced in time.

A transitional period does make sense, providing the settlement agreements are based on EU acquis from day one and not ask for EU acquis few decades later. That will not happen.

[Kikapu]

That's the reason the Anan Plan wanted the solution to become Primary Aquis (how, only God knows) so that nobody could challenge it at EU courts

Pyro,

Perhaps because it would have happened by a popular vote by majority Cypriots themselves before the RoC became a member. On the other hand, the EU could have completely refused to enter the RoC into the EU by having such a Racist policies that did not comply with her own EU acquis, which would have suited Turkey just fine, because not only partition would have taken place with the AP, but Turkey as a guarantor power would have had full control over Cyprus, and as luck would have it, Cyprus would have been beyond the reach of the EU for any help, since Cypriots themselves had voted through the AP to be in that position..

[BirKibrisli]

Once again,I take my hat off to Bananiot....He is still trying to talk sense to people who seem to have taken leave of their senses long time ago...I know as Cypriots we are notorious for being as stuborn as our donkey's but this is ridicilous...

What Bananiot is telling you is simple : We have a terminal patient with cancer,we need to do radical surgery to save her life...And here you are objecting to the operation because you want to wait for science to invent an ideal treatment to avoid cuttting off some limbs...Or you want more time to pray to your God for a miracle cure....Or you object to the operation because it might require blood transfusion and that is against your religious values....Rome is burning,my friends,and you keep playing your fiddle...You are all beyond help...I still visit this forum for one reason : to see if and when Bananiot will give up on you,accept defeat,and prepare himself for the death of the patient...I myself am in the middle of the grieving process...It is not much fun,dear Bananiot...

[Hermes]

Once again,I take my hat off to Bananiot....He is still trying to talk sense to people who seem to have taken leave of their senses long time ago...I know as Cypriots we are notorious for being as stuborn as our donkey's but this is ridicilous...

What Bananiot is telling you is simple : We have a terminal patient with cancer,we need to do radical surgery to save her life...And here you are objecting to the operation because you want to wait for science to invent an ideal treatment to avoid cuttting off some limbs...Or you want more time to pray to your God for a miracle cure....Or you object to the operation because it might require blood transfusion and that is against your religious values....Rome is burning,my friends,and you keep playing your fiddle...You are all beyond help...I still visit this forum for one reason : to see if and when Bananiot will give up on you,accept defeat,and prepare himself for the death of the patient...I myself am in the middle of the grieving process...It is not much fun,dear Bananiot...

A false analogy. We have a victim who is being held hostage by a terrorist group and we are negotiating his release. The terrorists want to sever the victim in half as part of the deal and keep his head and torso. We want to keep the victim alive and have him returned in one piece! Bruised and battered but still alive. Better to keep negotiating with the terrorists than accept their ridiculous terms which will leave us only with a victim sawn in half. After all, what sort of negotiator thinks getting half a corpse back is a good outcome?

[Viewpoint]

Hermes you have yet to take the lead and try to clarify why we should choose the EU and yourselves over Turkey? The first issue would be security how will you use the EU aquis to provide for the security between the two main communities in Cyprus?

You GCs sound like you have read the "how to do it text book" but have no real practical solutions that would clinch the deal.

Go ahead impress me and other TCs to side with and tell Turkey to go home.

[Get Real!]

Hermes you have yet to take the lead and try to clarify why we should choose the EU and yourselves over Turkey? The first issue would be security how will you use the EU aquis to provide for the security between the two main communities in Cyprus?

You GCs sound like you have read the "how to do it text book" but have no real practical solutions that would clinch the deal.

Go ahead impress me and other TCs to side with and tell Turkey to go home.

Cyprus is NOT a community and that’s why all talk trying to treat it as such fails.

You want to waste another 5 years talking communities? Go ahead, but hardly anyone is listening any more.

The theory has all but evaporated…