Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Okay, let's have a settlement based on European principles. No doubt this is the best solution, there is no denying this. Now, can anyone show me the way to go about getting this European settlement, before Cyprus is partitioned and before Cyprus is Turkified? Like I said before, convince me that this is attainable and I am with you, all the way.

Well, I'm glad that you also believe this is the best solution for ALL Cypriots and Cyprus, which now Cyprus as a EU member is in a far better environment to offer trust and security for everyone, which was not available with the 1960 agreements, in which case, we need to convince the TCs that this is the best solution for all, rather than asking for the GCs to accept the undesirable solution and hope for the best few decades down the road. Political equality should not be ONLY for the TCs but for the GCs also, or else, there can never be trust and security built for anyone. I'm afraid the TCs will need to take inititives to want to have a settlement based on the EU acquis and not follow in what Turkey wants. This is what I try to do and what the RoC has been doing to a deegree. Once the TCs accept the realities in what Turkey is trying to do, which is not for their own best interest, then they should start making demands along with the GCs to the international community that they want to be part of the EU 100%. This alone will put Turkey into the corner and ALL the facists in the north. Turkey will need to be made to pay the price if she does not allow the TCs to do as they wish, by the UN starting to impliment the UN resolutions against Turkey and for the EU to start demanding for Turkey to leave Cyprus or face economic sanctions. The fact that you have concerns of Turkey wanting in Turkifying the north only goes to show that Turkey is in Cyprus for herself and not for the TC's. You should try to concince the TCs that the EU acquis is the best policy for them, the GCs and for Cyprus, rather telling them indirectly that they should go for privilaged apartheid settlement. Just because the desirable may be harder to achieve than the undesirable, it shouldn't mean that we should accept the undesirable, because if we did that, then Turkey will get what she wants and Cypriots will lose.

P.S. Remember, the Annan Plan was UN brokered and EU supported. The deep state of Turkey was against it and the generals entertained a plan to dispose of Erdogan had the plan gone through. Denktash was quoted taking a huge sigh of relief and saying "i thank God the GCs said no"

Well, you cannot believe everything in what the above players said and did not say, since we don't know all the details in what went on behind closed doors, aside from few information found on Wiki-leaks. If the UN and the EU were satisfied with the 2004 AP, then they would be demanding for the GCs to accept it today, but they have not and will not. Lets not confuse few corrupt individuals in those institutions in what they wanted and not the institutions themselves. The only people who are still asking for the AP to be brought back is Turkey and the fascist puppets of Turkey in the north. I wonder why?

[Get Real!]

"την πατρίδα ουκ ελάττω παραδώσω, πλείω δε και αρείω όσης αν παραδέξωμαι"

Sure, but in your case you’d first have to figure out which your “badrida” is!

[Bananiot]

You are not fair Kikapu. This has been my stance since day one in this forum. Surely you have read my views on many occasions in numerous threads. While you recognise the presence of fascists of the north, you seem to pay total disrespect to the fascists of the south. The Turk haters for whom the only good Turk is a dead Turk. These people are just as dangerous as they were in 1963 and live only for the day they will get their own back.

Practically speaking we need a transition period of some years, perhaps decades, before what you describe can have realistic chances of happening. We are paying for the sins of the past because in international affairs bills are always paid. Thus, your idea Kikapu that all we need is to create a common front with the TCs and ask for a European solution, is easier said than done. Unfortunately this is not realistic and if we had to wait until such conditions are met, it will be far too late for all of us. We need solution "yesterday" even if it is not the best we deserve, otherwise all will be lost for ever!

[bill cobbett]

"την πατρίδα ουκ ελάττω παραδώσω, πλείω δε και αρείω όσης αν παραδέξωμαι"

Sure, but in your case you’d first have to figure out which your “badrida” is!

Will yous twos stop it... am trying to read what Kikapu just wrote... which needs some concentration cos it's written as a big block of text.

[Get Real!]

Bananiot,

The only problem with your reasoning with the above is, unless there is a settlement based on EU Principles, you are not going to get rid of Turkey or the settlers as you hope and wish to do,

Had the EU had any principles they would’ve insisted on the decades old UN resolutions and never gone along with undemocratic and racist community arrangements!

[RichardB]

"την πατρίδα ουκ ελάττω παραδώσω, πλείω δε και αρείω όσης αν παραδέξωμαι"

Sure, but in your case you’d first have to figure out which your “badrida” is!

Will yous twos stop it... am trying to read what Kikapu just wrote... which needs some concentration cos it's written as a big block of text.

Could have been worse Bill.... it could have been in joined up writing

[Bananiot]

Kikapu, when did Erdogan or Eroglu asked for the Annan Plan to come back? In fact, only recently, the Turkish government has reassured the inhabitants of Morphou that the town will never be returned to the GCs. The Annan Plan is dead and buried, no one will resurrect it, I assure you.

[Hermes]

You are not fair Kikapu. This has been my stance since day one in this forum. Surely you have read my views on many occasions in numerous threads. While you recognise the presence of fascists of the north, you seem to pay total disrespect to the fascists of the south. The Turk haters for whom the only good Turk is a dead Turk. These people are just as dangerous as they were in 1963 and live only for the day they will get their own back.

Practically speaking we need a transition period of some years, perhaps decades, before what you describe can have realistic chances of happening. We are paying for the sins of the past because in international affairs bills are always paid. Thus, your idea Kikapu that all we need is to create a common front with the TCs and ask for a European solution, is easier said than done. Unfortunately this is not realistic and if we had to wait until such conditions are met, it will be far too late for all of us. We need solution "yesterday" even if it is not the best we deserve, otherwise all will be lost for ever!

Do you believe that because of the presence of a few fascists in both communities the island should remain effectively partitioned and the Turkish Cypriots kept isolated from the rest of the people of the island? Then what do you want a solution for? Why not keep things as they are? That way the two communities need never come into contact with each other again. Of course the fascists will have won. You'll get your "transition period" and "derogations". You'll be happy. The fascists will be happy. And everyone will live under a racist system deprived of their full rights. To me that sounds like an apartheid nightmare. To you it's a "feasible solution". God give me strength!!

[GreekIslandGirl]

Do you believe that because of the presence of a few fascists in both communities the island should remain effectively partitioned and the Turkish Cypriots kept isolated from the rest of the people of the island?

This is where the hypocrite, Bananiot, suddenly believes in going after "the desirable" (zero fascists anywhere) instead of "the feasible" (a few nutcases around).

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, when did Erdogan or Eroglu asked for the Annan Plan to come back? In fact, only recently, the Turkish government has reassured the inhabitants of Morphou that the town will never be returned to the GCs. The Annan Plan is dead and buried, no one will resurrect it, I assure you.

From the beginning of the recent talks between Christofias and Talat, the AP was asked to be the starting point by Turkey. In fact, Talat was stating that his position WAS the AP and that there was no need for further input from him/Turkey in the present talks. Surely you have not forgotten this my friend, even if it was almost 3 years ago. The only reason Erdogan recently began to act like a spoilt brat stomping his feet that the so called compromises made by Turkey in the AP was no longer available, is ONLY because he cannot have the AP back. He is trying to be clever by making the GCs believe, that ONLY with the AP the offer would be back on the table. In another words, telling the GCs to bring back the AP. He's using cheap propaganda and cheap reverse psychology. Without the AP, Turkey is stuck in the corner she has painted herself into and cannot go forward in controlling all of Cyprus. The most she can do is what she is doing now, which is not what she wants, but stuck there all the same. I'm surprised you would believe anything Erdogan says when he gets in his pissy moods from time to time. Perhaps you are too trusting. I'm not. Be on the lookout for game playings, Bananiot. Desperate people say desperate things, even if they can't do anything in what they say at all. The ONLY way to deal with Erdogan and Eroglu is to hold their feet to the EU membership fire, in order for them to agree to BBF based on EU acquis, because if Cypriots end up losing something because they want to conform to EU acquis for a settlement, then Turkey should be made to lose a hell of a lot more, and they will do so in the long run. By accepting any undesirable settlement with Turkey today, Cypriots will lose from the beginning and Turkey will gain from the beginning, so where is the incentive for the Cypriots to give into what Erdogan and Eroglu want by agreeing to another AP. There are none. That's why the AP is Dead & Buried and Erdogan and Eroglu know it, since even the EU and the UN are not demanding it to be resurrected. Should tell you something Erdogan's mind games he tries to play. Well, they do not work on me and hopefully, nor does it with many Cypriots.