Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

I smell a Greek nationalist here…

Let’s hang him by the balls and if he squeals he’s a rat!

Why don't you behave like a good 'native' Cypriot and go after that re-emerged Turkish poster 'helsingfors'. Use that fine brain of yours to work out who he was (if you can), since you are that way inclined.

Mistress of the dark, I expect the vice president to back me 100%!

Or am I still living in the past?

[GreekIslandGirl]

I smell a Greek nationalist here…

Let’s hang him by the balls and if he squeals he’s a rat!

Why don't you behave like a good 'native' Cypriot and go after that re-emerged Turkish poster 'helsingfors'. Use that fine brain of yours to work out who he was (if you can), since you are that way inclined.

Mistress of the dark, I expect the vice president to back me 100%!

Or am I still living in the past?

Selective memory or revisionism?

DT. was VP and you a mere ombudsman.

How you've changed, GR! You are now opposing this newcomer who upholds the same resolutions you used to brand around all the time.

Now prioritize, and give back Bananiot's self-flagellation accessories. I'm sure when Bananiot has thought up another slithery response he can speak for himself.

[Bananiot]

Do you realise GR that you are telling one Greek nationalist that another Greek is a nationalist? Hermes, Eroglu is no friend of mine but along with old Denktash he is the favourite friend of our nationalists because he is the reason for their existence. Without Eroglu they would be jumping off the Dover cliffs. You claim you know me but you ask ridiculous questions of the type "do you support universal principles?"

And yes, politics is the art of the feasible, and anyone that impulsively goes for the desirable, will perish. We have tried this in the past and this is where it has got us. Our only hope is to forge an alliance with the moderate-progressive forces within the TC community, and try to save whatever can be saved, under the circumstances. Both sides need to compromise and even if the solution does have plenty to be desired, we could hope that after living peacefully together for some decades, and have convinced each other that we can tolerate each other, we could later on think of a better arrangement that will be closer the European acquis.

If we do not do this we will face oblivion, every day that passes sees the consolidation of the Turkish presence in Cyprus and the number of settlers increases by the day. We need solution like fresh air, even if some aspects of it will not be palatable. This is the real patriotic stance, everything else is epea pteroenta (of which we had plenty from the Greek nationalists) and have led to catastrophy for Cyprus.

[kurupetos]

Do you realise GR that you are telling one Greek nationalist that another Greek is a nationalist? Hermes, Eroglu is no friend of mine but along with old Denktash he is the favourite friend of our nationalists because he is the reason for their existence. Without Eroglu they would be jumping off the Dover cliffs. You claim you know me but you ask ridiculous questions of the type "do you support universal principles?"

And yes, politics is the art of the feasible, and anyone that impulsively goes for the desirable, will perish. We have tried this in the past and this is where it has got us. Our only hope is to forge an alliance with the moderate-progressive forces within the TC community, and try to save whatever can be saved, under the circumstances. Both sides need to compromise and even if the solution does have plenty to be desired, we could hope that after living peacefully together for some decades, and have convinced each other that we can tolerate each other, we could later on think of a better arrangement that will be closer the European acquis.

If we do not do this we will face oblivion, every day that passes sees the consolidation of the Turkish presence in Cyprus and the number of settlers increases by the day. We need solution like fresh air, even if some aspects of it will not be palatable. This is the real patriotic stance, everything else is epea pteroenta (of which we had plenty from the Greek nationalists) and have led to catastrophy for Cyprus.

All wrong Bananiot. Politics is not the art of bending over. We will make no compromises.
And since you like ancient Greek quotes, here's one for you: "την πατρίδα ουκ ελάττω παραδώσω, πλείω δε και αρείω όσης αν παραδέξωμαι"

[Kikapu]

Do you realise GR that you are telling one Greek nationalist that another Greek is a nationalist? Hermes, Eroglu is no friend of mine but along with old Denktash he is the favourite friend of our nationalists because he is the reason for their existence. Without Eroglu they would be jumping off the Dover cliffs. You claim you know me but you ask ridiculous questions of the type "do you support universal principles?"

And yes, politics is the art of the feasible, and anyone that impulsively goes for the desirable, will perish. We have tried this in the past and this is where it has got us. Our only hope is to forge an alliance with the moderate-progressive forces within the TC community, and try to save whatever can be saved, under the circumstances. Both sides need to compromise and even if the solution does have plenty to be desired, we could hope that after living peacefully together for some decades, and have convinced each other that we can tolerate each other, we could later on think of a better arrangement that will be closer the European acquis.

If we do not do this we will face oblivion, every day that passes sees the consolidation of the Turkish presence in Cyprus and the number of settlers increases by the day. We need solution like fresh air, even if some aspects of it will not be palatable. This is the real patriotic stance, everything else is epea pteroenta (of which we had plenty from the Greek nationalists) and have led to catastrophy for Cyprus.

Bananiot,

The only problem with your reasoning with the above is, unless there is a settlement based on EU Principles, you are not going to get rid of Turkey or the settlers as you hope and wish to do, which is why Turkey was happy to have agreed on the 2004 Annan Plan, which meant that Turkey would have been able to exclusively control the the north through its puppet leaders in the north and have an influence over the whole island as a guarantor. The Cyprus issue is not just between the TC's and the GC's for them to try have a experimental settlement, by allowing few decades of a non EU Principles settlement just so for the sides to build trust before moving forward with full European acquis. Just how do you expect people to build trust with each other when one group is benefiting at the expense of the other and why would those who are benefiting at the expense of the others to give up on their privileges few decades later?

Maybe you want to use South Africa's past apartheid system as an example where in the end it became a more democratic system there, but surely this cannot be expected to be accepted by anyone in the 21st century as a starting point for any settlement anywhere in the world that would start with an apartheid system, let alone within the EU. Besides, we have already tried out that experimental settlement agreement with the 1960 agreements which was not based on EU Principles and it didn't work, so why try it again and get the same bad results? If we have a settlement based on EU Principles, then Turkey would not have any reason to remain in Cyprus, just because she won't be able to have any influence on the TCs or on Cyprus, just because Turkey herself does not have a system based on EU Principles. Turkey needs Cyprus to have a system where she can have direct and indirect influence in Cyprus and on the TCs. The European acquis denies Turkey in what she wants, which are the reasons as to why we should have it in Cyprus.

[Bananiot]

Okay, let's have a settlement based on European principles. No doubt this is the best solution, there is no denying this. Now, can anyone show me the way to go about getting this European settlement, before Cyprus is partitioned and before Cyprus is Turkified? Like I said before, convince me that this is attainable and I am with you, all the way.

P.S. Remember, the Annan Plan was UN brokered and EU supported. The deep state of Turkey was against it and the generals entertained a plan to dispose of Erdogan had the plan gone through. Denktash was quoted taking a huge sigh of relief and saying "i thank God the GCs said no"

[Hermes]

Okay, let's have a settlement based on European principles. No doubt this is the best solution, there is no denying this. Now, can anyone show me the way to go about getting this European settlement, before Cyprus is partitioned and before Cyprus is Turkified? Like I said before, convince me that this is attainable and I am with you, all the way.

Bananiot, you are aware that the RoC, as a full member of the EU, is not only entitled, but is actually obliged to implement the EU acquis? This means the implementation of basic human rights, which, when applied BTW, would make a feasible solution for all Cypriots. The acquis, and the supervision of the EU, would bring peace, security and prosperity to all. This same acquis satisfies 500 million Europeans. Turkey cannot justifiably convince anyone that 120,000 Turkish Cypriots cannot also be satisfied. Turkey itself also has to respect the acquis since it strives to join the EU.

The acquis is the actual body of EU law which Cyprus has adopted and would also guarantee a solution to work. It is not something you can "opt out" of. It is, in effect, the best way forward. What has been lacking in the current talks is a European dimension - partly because Turkey is still wedded to thinking it can get a better deal outside of the EU process. T/Cs need to be encouraged that they will be better off as EU citizens within a federal Cyprus rather than subjects of Turkish dominion. It shouldn't be difficult for the EU and the RoC to reach out to progressive moderate T/Cs to further this aim.

[Viewpoint]

Hermes take the lead and convince me and other TCs that the Eu aquis is the best way forward. Lets start with security taking into account our past history and current concerns. Convince me and you will get my support 100%.

[bill cobbett]

Can just say that despite a very shaky start this thread has turned in to a decent read on this page...

... still very unhappy about the title mind.

[Cap]

Okay, let's have a settlement based on European principles. No doubt this is the best solution, there is no denying this. Now, can anyone show me the way to go about getting this European settlement, before Cyprus is partitioned and before Cyprus is Turkified? Like I said before, convince me that this is attainable and I am with you, all the way.

Bananiot, you are aware that the RoC, as a full member of the EU, is not only entitled, but is actually obliged to implement the EU acquis? This means the implementation of basic human rights, which, when applied BTW, would make a feasible solution for all Cypriots. The acquis, and the supervision of the EU, would bring peace, security and prosperity to all. This same acquis satisfies 500 million Europeans. Turkey cannot justifiably convince anyone that 120,000 Turkish Cypriots cannot also be satisfied. Turkey itself also has to respect the acquis since it strives to join the EU.

The acquis is the actual body of EU law which Cyprus has adopted and would also guarantee a solution to work. It is not something you can "opt out" of. It is, in effect, the best way forward. What has been lacking in the current talks is a European dimension - partly because Turkey is still wedded to thinking it can get a better deal outside of the EU process. T/Cs need to be encouraged that they will be better off as EU citizens within a federal Cyprus rather than subjects of Turkish dominion. It shouldn't be difficult for the EU and the RoC to reach out to progressive moderate T/Cs to further this aim.

The tiny Maronite and Armenian communities aint complaining, hell they're flourishing. With their churches, schools, organisations and cemeteries... ALL PROTECTED.
What makes Mehmet special?

enough with the Anatolian bullsh**.