Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, may be our problems go beyond 1571, to the time the Greeks came and impose themselves on the natives. This logic beats me and goes to say a lot of the quality of debates we have here.

Why stop there,Bananiot? If there was no big bang we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now...So lets blame it all on Nature or God or whoever is responsible for this silly mess called the universe,and wait for the Big Power to solve our problemmm...

[Piratis]

%18 is much easier for GCs to swamp, dont you want freedom of movement and settlement as well? as you know this is EU aquis, but for us it spells great danger leaving the door wide open to manipulation and dissemblance of the TC state by the majority GCs.

In what way it is easier for GCs to "swamp" the 18% than a 29%? Quite the contrary. Your population will be the same, regardless if the land will be 18% or 29%. If TCs are concentrated in the 18% of land then even if all our refugees return to that 18%, the TCs will still be the majority. But if the TCs keep 29% of land, then if all GC refugees return to that 29% of land, then TCs can become the minority.

It is just a cheap excuse. Your real reason is that you want to keep under your command as much of Cyprus as possible.

I have explained this before but will do so again for your benefit Piratis,

If we are reduced to 18% many TCs will not move form their villages so our numbers will automatically dwindle, lets say for thos example we are 250,000 people in 37% we go down to 18% our numbers go down to 120,000, we also have to recognized that everyone can move and settle where ever they wish its in the EU aquis.

There are 2 scenarios:

If we have 50 seat upper house with proportional representation we will get 9 members in the upper house but if the voting balance is 25+1 to pass a bill we cannot stop or oppose any bill because the GC MPs have the advantage as they have 41 seats.

Now if we opt for an equal balance of 25 GC MPs and 25 TC MPs then all the GCs have to do in order to gain power is encourage a small number of GCs to move into the TC state. To produce 25 TC MPs each one on average would have to get on average approx 4800 votes or less allowing for the people who cannot vote, all the GCs have to do arrange for 4800 GCs to reside in one MPs constituent to sway the votes in favour of their candidate and bingo they have the 1 seat necessary to swing the power in their direction...maybe thats the swing in power you are on about Piratis.

Now if we to reduce land to 25% this would mean the majority of TCs would remain within that 25% giving us say a population of 210,000 then GCs would have to try and get far more GCs to move north to gain the one seat necessary to gain power over the whole island.

To combat this my suggestion was that the upper could have proportional representation but to pass a bill a certain number of TC and GC vote would be necessary ratify or change a bill.

So now do you understand that dangers we face when you demand we go down to 18%, if we are to agree to such a adical reduction then the question begs to be asked why not just separate once and for all and have our own individual countries where there would no longer be any risks or problems.

VP, an 18% minority can not have 50% power. Such demand kills the prospect of any agreement.

If you agreed on an 18% - 82% land share, dividing with the same proportion coastline and resources, then I would agree on two individual countries as long as the human rights of all Cypriots were protected.

Now we are getting somewhere.Which human rights exactly remembering we would be out of the EU and you in it.

Human rights as defined by the UN. In or out of EU shouldn't make any difference.

[repulsewarrior]

50-50 in government is not hard, allow every citizen two votes from seperate slates, for their Turkish-Cypriot representative, and for their Greek-Cypriot representative; allow for a President who must win a majority of seats to lead.

Make your system of government bicammeral, and include a third slate for a Lower House which offers their approval as independantly representing their constituents by population, and you have a State which can defend its Citizens as Individuals, without discrimination regarless the demographics or how they'll change. add a single seat for Maronites, and one for the Armenians, then the whole population can vote for them as well from a forth and fifth slate....

...i would not agree to Piratis' offer. Cyprus is one, it has been one for millenia, and by using enclaves which pocket the whole island, two National Assemblies can provide the infrastucture as Majorities who will have to demonstrate their Goodwill to the Minorities which live amongst them, the displaced from 63 and 74 return as communities; one State, as well as (many) National Assemblies, this is Bicommunal.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis you will have no rights in the 18% Tc state, only those of any foreigner visiting another country. We would be out of the EU so the right to movement and settlement is not on the cards. How do you see the 18% division? I suggest from Nicosia towards Kyrenia and swelling outwards on both flanks.

[Piratis]

Piratis you will have no rights in the 18% Tc state, only those of any foreigner visiting another country. We would be out of the EU so the right to movement and settlement is not on the cards. How do you see the 18% division? I suggest from Nicosia towards Kyrenia and swelling outwards on both flanks.

What I mean is that if a number of TCs wants to remain RoC citizens and live in the south part of the island instead of becoming citizens of the TC state, then they should be free to do it. Similarly you should allow an equal number of GCs to return to the north as a minority there without any special privilages but with their human rights protected. Would you have a problem to exchange Kikapu for Bananiot, for example?

Using an area calculator (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-googl ... r-tool.htm) 18% would look something like this:

18pc.jpg

[Viewpoint]

Where is the attached map? admin must have erased it.

As for TC and Living in the other state, you would have to decide for the RoC but I would not object for the north state as long as it was kept to an agreed %.

[boulio]

kifeas had done this a while ago this is what 18% looks like:

http://postimage.org/image/nu5npyr6x/

[B25]

Piratis you will have no rights in the 18% Tc state, only those of any foreigner visiting another country. We would be out of the EU so the right to movement and settlement is not on the cards. How do you see the 18% division? I suggest from Nicosia towards Kyrenia and swelling outwards on both flanks.

What I mean is that if a number of TCs wants to remain RoC citizens and live in the south part of the island instead of becoming citizens of the TC state, then they should be free to do it. Similarly you should allow an equal number of GCs to return to the north as a minority there without any special privilages but with their human rights protected. Would you have a problem to exchange Kikapu for Bananiot, for example?

Using an area calculator (http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-googl ... r-tool.htm) 18% would look something like this:

18pc.jpg

Pirati, I take issue with this shaded area. You have mistakenly put it on land, Cypriot land, it should either be in the sea or 40 miles further north in Turkey. Please also prepare one for the Kurds and Kurdistan.

In fact, make it conditional that for us to even accpt such a shaded 'TC' area, Turkey has to accept the Kurds shaded area (that you will produce). let's see what they have to say when the shoe is on the other foot.

@Banana man - the TCs ARE a minority, we do not make them a minority. If they want to be a majority then turkey just over the water can afford them that. Stops talking crap and blaming the GCs for all of Cyprus's woes.

[boulio]

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