Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mikiko]

Something that has not been highlited much not only now but also in the past is the economic benefits of a settlement . I remember Vasiliou produced a report in the past but this has been thrown into the dustbin by our braive and objective politicians because their personal benefit is much more important. They do not want to see their power diminish. Now they have what they want they manipulate the masses with promises .

At a time of high unemployment and economy going into a recession the reconstruction of the country will bring a new dynamic into the economy. Companies will get projects to reconstruct dead cities like Varoshia and many other which are curently dead and on the decline. I do not know why these benefits which are obvious has not been discussed ? Also improved relations with Turkey will bring other foreign investment into the country and export Cyprus goods to Turkey will improve more the Finances.

I do not understand why these reports have not been highlighted and they overephasise ONLY the negative in order to justify their own made conclusions....
I rememebr the chief of the central bank Chrystodoulou has even gobe further to produce a whole book about how an Anan Plan will destroy the island But Dont forget that Crystodoulou gets 3 type of pensions having served as a minister and as a Chief in the Central Bank . he has millions in his bank account and the current statues serve him very well . When Vasiliou who is a prestigious economist highligted on one report the Benefits these have been thrown into the dustbin .

The une,mployment has increased with the recession but those who have the power do not even care as they have secured their FAT pensions and their families also .

[Piratis]

You criminally underestimate the effects of no solution Piratis and it is doubly criminal that you want your solution here and now. Nothing less, nothing more. This you can only impose by military means and if you had this capability, you would soon forget about human rights, freedom and democracy. You have been known to do this in other instances, along with a few other of the forum patriots.

You keep saying:

TCs can keep part of Cyprus under federal TC administration (something which they do not have the right for, but it will be our compromise), but that part of Cyprus should be about 18%. When it comes to Cyprus as a whole the central government should be elected democratically by the Cypriot people as a whole and there can be some minimum required TC participation (e.g. certain numbers of ministers being TC). Any guarantees should come from international organizations, e.g. UN, EU and NATO, while the number of Settlers that will stay should not be over 50.000 total. The human rights of all Cypriots should be respected."

You damn well know that for 3 decades we have been urged by the UN (and successive CY governments beginning with Makarios have agreed to this) to seek a Federal Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as described in the relevant Security Council resolutions, in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation

Can we really go back, and ask now the UN to change its resolutions and ask the TCs to accept minority status? Are you serious about this? This, a baby can tell you, can only be imposed after a succesfull military campaign. Do you want me to believe that you would care so much for the TCs after military success?

Our leadership was blackmailed to accept to negotiate based on something which is not acceptable by the majority of the Cypriot people.

The so called "solution" that you want us to accept is worst than the problem. Who the hell accepts as a solution something which is worst than the problem? And since it is obvious that the Turkish side will not agree to a solution that will be better for us than what we have now, that means there will never be any agreed solution.

Therefore a real solution can be achieved only under a different balance of power. Not necessarily a military campaign, but that can be an option under the right conditions.

I will never forget about human rights and democracy. Those TCs that respect my human and democratic rights will receive respect from me as well. There are many other minorities in Cyprus and we have no problems with them. But of course the TCs can not expect any generous offers from us (e.g. autonomy in the north) if instead of agreeing to such solution now they wait until a solution is enforced.

[BirKibrisli]

The headlines in the offer from Piratis comes across as 18% Territory, all human rights respected, autonomy in a northern zone for internal matters, central federal government elected by majority popular vote with an effective say for all groups, with guarantees from bodies such as EU, UN and Nato (would add OSCE to that list) and up to 50,000 settlers stay...

(oooh hope have got that summary right????)

... Seems Very Fair and Very Equitable, an offer no one can argue with surely??? ... VP, Bir et al don't you think?? Bananiot and Halil .... Happy with that ????

If we are to go down to 18% then why accept this offer? an independent state would be more appropriate and healthy.

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, straight from the horses mouth. The partitionist in action. She has just confirmed what we have been saying all long. A turk at work.

Yes, didn't expect VP to rush to be first in the queue to give us a thumbs up to a Very Fair Offer from P.

Wonder what Bir and Halil will say ???? Come along boys don't you be hiding your zivania under a bush now, you hear?

Oh and Bananiot will you also confirm that as a result of the Very Equitable Offer you will in future be referring to our P as a former nationalist or a reformed nationalist even ????

(Gosh ... this is so exciting, can't wait to hear that Bir and Halil accept the offer and that Cyprob is settled)

Personally i have little problem with this plan,as long as the details are satisfactorily filled in...But most TCs living in the trnc will not accept the 18% land share ,and more importantly will want Turkey to be in the guarantee picture somewhat prominantly...

[BirKibrisli]

18% Noway.

Which totally supports Piratis thesis that you want, no demand, unfair gains at our loss. You have been owned again VP. At this rate, you'd do well in a whore house.

You have now shown you true colours and I would like to see what your, equally demanding mates, Birkturk and banana oil have to say.

We need an new movie, 'Confessions of a Partitionist', staring VP, Birkturk and Banana oil.

with every post you make,you remind us why the TCs need the protection of a viable statelet,and why they feel they need Turkeys stong arm to feel safe...keep this up and you will make sure there is no solution other than the status quo...

[B25]

18% Noway.

Which totally supports Piratis thesis that you want, no demand, unfair gains at our loss. You have been owned again VP. At this rate, you'd do well in a whore house.

You have now shown you true colours and I would like to see what your, equally demanding mates, Birkturk and banana oil have to say.

We need an new movie, 'Confessions of a Partitionist', staring VP, Birkturk and Banana oil.

with every post you make,you remind us why the TCs need the protection of a viable statelet,and why they feel they need Turkeys stong arm to feel safe...keep this up and you will make sure there is no solution other than the status quo...

I thik the reverse is true. With every post that VP, you and Banana oil make just reinforces our resolve that you are demanding ottoman style privilages and you want gains at our losses. The vile you and your buddies spew, are second to none, with you daily theats of accept this or else. Well as I said before, I'd rather take the or else than be subjected to more racists and discriminatory practices by you and your clan.

[Piratis]

The headlines in the offer from Piratis comes across as 18% Territory, all human rights respected, autonomy in a northern zone for internal matters, central federal government elected by majority popular vote with an effective say for all groups, with guarantees from bodies such as EU, UN and Nato (would add OSCE to that list) and up to 50,000 settlers stay...

(oooh hope have got that summary right????)

... Seems Very Fair and Very Equitable, an offer no one can argue with surely??? ... VP, Bir et al don't you think?? Bananiot and Halil .... Happy with that ????

If we are to go down to 18% then why accept this offer? an independent state would be more appropriate and healthy.

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, straight from the horses mouth. The partitionist in action. She has just confirmed what we have been saying all long. A turk at work.

Yes, didn't expect VP to rush to be first in the queue to give us a thumbs up to a Very Fair Offer from P.

Wonder what Bir and Halil will say ???? Come along boys don't you be hiding your zivania under a bush now, you hear?

Oh and Bananiot will you also confirm that as a result of the Very Equitable Offer you will in future be referring to our P as a former nationalist or a reformed nationalist even ????

(Gosh ... this is so exciting, can't wait to hear that Bir and Halil accept the offer and that Cyprob is settled)

Personally i have little problem with this plan,as long as the details are satisfactorily filled in...But most TCs living in the trnc will not accept the 18% land share ,and more importantly will want Turkey to be in the guarantee picture somewhat prominantly...

18%-82% land share is not only fairer, but it also makes the problem with the refugees much easier to solve since all GC refugees can return to their homes if they wish and the TCs can still be the majority in that 18% of territory if most of them choose to live there instead of other parts of Cyprus.

The only reason the TCs will not accept 18% is because their expectations were raised to high, to a level that is way beyond what we can compromise to, making an agreed solution impossible.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir,

I notice in your reply to PIratis you talk of Enosis as a death sentence in the TC consience. So is partition for the GC conscience. But we have lived with partition for 36 years and have signed a future settlement which is partition with a politically correct name. In practical terms the TCs have won their Taksim, and do not seem willing to moderate it even to its politically correct form anymore.

Witness the statements by the highest political personalities of Turkey that there are two people, two states etc on the island, implying that reunification is not possible, at least not in the way the word is normally interpreted. When Erdo said that GCs will only be allowed back in the north for religious worship and nothing else, (he forgot the casinos and the brothels) how do you understand his statement and what message do you think the GCs receive from it? I understand that he gives the choice is between partition and partition and nothing else.

This inflexible approach justifies those that say our only mistake was not going for Enosis whole hearted, and that those who resisted the coup were wrong. Not my view, but it is out there. And it is hard to fault the logic when I listen to Erdo, Soysal and the like.

Nikitas,

I've always warned people here that Erdogan is using the cyprus card for his own purposes...Back in 2004 he was prepared to agree to the AP because that was what was needed with his fight with the Turkish Army hierarchy...It is a pity the plan was rejected by the GCs,as it will probably go down in history as the best possible outcome for all Cypriots...Our last chance to agree to a solutiin which would stand a chance of success...

things have changed somewhat for Erdogan both domestically and internationally,so a solution is not as desired as before...If you read things in this light,you wont be surprised by the goings on at the moment...

[Viewpoint]

%18 is much easier for GCs to swamp, dont you want freedom of movement and settlement as well? as you know this is EU aquis, but for us it spells great danger leaving the door wide open to manipulation and dissemblance of the TC state by the majority GCs.

[BirKibrisli]

You are really pathetic. So according to you the problem in 1800s was not the fact that the Cypriot people were opressed by the Ottomans and were discriminated against because of their ethnicity/religion, but that the Cypriot people wanted their freedom (as obviously was the case with all parts of our nation which were under Ottoman rule - in 1800 there was no Greek state to achieve enosis with. If Cyprus was liberated from back then our island would be part of the initial Greek State, no enosis would be needed).

We are not talking about the problems in the 1800s...We are talking about the germinal cause of the big split between the TCs and GCs which led to the present stalemate...
Piratis,for the TCs Enosis was not a liberation struggle,it was a death sentence...The idea that Cyprus might one day be part of their sworn enemy ,Greece,was sending shivers in all TC backs...That is why they sided with whoever came along and offered them help...Time you accepted and acknowledged this historical fact...

So even for that era, according to you who started the problem was not the Turks that invaded and oppressed us, but the Cypriots because they revolted seeking their freedom and the right to do what they want with their own island. The Turks have ALWAYS been the ones who started every war and conflict in Cyprus in their attempt to oppress us and impose their rule against the democratically expressed choices of the Cypriot people.

Not this one...The cause of our present day conflict is your megali idea,Enosis...You mustve known when you started along that road that the TCs would resist you with all their might...Yet,you didnt gfive a damn then and you don't give a damn now what we think or believe or want...Your method has always been crush through or crush...Well,you crushed badly then,and you will crush even worse this time...

If you haven't noticed we are at war because you illegally occupy 1/3rd of our island. And we are not going to make any peace with you until you give back what you stole. And now you come here to blame me because I am willing to fight for the freedom of my country against the invaders? No my friend, the ones who are to be blamed are the invaders and none else.

We are at war because you wanted to give away ALL of our island to Greece.As a result of this dastardly deed many TCs lost everything their ancestors worked hard to built for hundreds of years,my family amongst them...So don't talk to me about stolen land,you will get no sympathy...I blame you because you still want to turn Cyprus into a Greek island...I know you dont see us that way but the TCs are no invaders,we have been the inhabitans here for centuries...Get that into your thick skull.

Whose side will you be if/when we came to liberate our own lands? The side of those who fight for the freedom of Cyprus from the illegal Turkish occupation, or the side of the foreign Turkish army fighting to preserve an illegal occupation? If you will be helping the Turkish army with the crimes it commits against us (as most TCs do) then you are the enemy and should be treated accordingly. What else did you expect?

I don't know...you tell me ,Piratis...My land is near Paphos in the South...I have only been there for a visit once in 40 years,I found the houses I lived in demolished,and the place turned into a pig farm...Who do you think I should support? Who is my enemy,you tell me...

You started talking about the 1800s my friend. According to you it was all fine when we were under the Ottoman empire, where you could enjoy privileges on our expense, and the problem started only when we wanted our freedom like all other Greek islands and territories.

No my friend, the problem started when you first invaded our island and oppressed us. You have been separate from us right from the beginning, with the Ottomans giving to you privileges and rights on our expense. The problem continues today because you still show no respect to the human and democratic rights of the Cypriot people (unlike the Latin minority). You continue to want to have special privileges on our expense and to undemocratically take decisions for Cyprus.

Just as I thought...You ignored everything I said and returned to your idea of the reason why we are in this mess now :Because the Ottomans captured cyprus in 1571....It is impossible to have a logical or sensible excahange of ideas with you...Your brain has only one track...You are programmed to repeat the same arguments adinfinitum...You are not a bot by any chance???

[Bananiot]

Bir, may be our problems go beyond 1571, to the time the Greeks came and impose themselves on the natives. This logic beats me and goes to say a lot of the quality of debates we have here.