Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

In my view as the Turks are putting forth unreasonable proposals we should be pushing for one cyprus no one gets 18% or 82%. One Cyprus one person = one vote anyone can run for Presidency.

[BirKibrisli]

You are really pathetic. So according to you the problem in 1800s was not the fact that the Cypriot people were opressed by the Ottomans and were discriminated against because of their ethnicity/religion, but that the Cypriot people wanted their freedom (as obviously was the case with all parts of our nation which were under Ottoman rule - in 1800 there was no Greek state to achieve enosis with. If Cyprus was liberated from back then our island would be part of the initial Greek State, no enosis would be needed).

We are not talking about the problems in the 1800s...We are talking about the germinal cause of the big split between the TCs and GCs which led to the present stalemate...
Piratis,for the TCs Enosis was not a liberation struggle,it was a death sentence...The idea that Cyprus might one day be part of their sworn enemy ,Greece,was sending shivers in all TC backs...That is why they sided with whoever came along and offered them help...Time you accepted and acknowledged this historical fact...

So even for that era, according to you who started the problem was not the Turks that invaded and oppressed us, but the Cypriots because they revolted seeking their freedom and the right to do what they want with their own island. The Turks have ALWAYS been the ones who started every war and conflict in Cyprus in their attempt to oppress us and impose their rule against the democratically expressed choices of the Cypriot people.

Not this one...The cause of our present day conflict is your megali idea,Enosis...You mustve known when you started along that road that the TCs would resist you with all their might...Yet,you didnt gfive a damn then and you don't give a damn now what we think or believe or want...Your method has always been crush through or crush...Well,you crushed badly then,and you will crush even worse this time...

If you haven't noticed we are at war because you illegally occupy 1/3rd of our island. And we are not going to make any peace with you until you give back what you stole. And now you come here to blame me because I am willing to fight for the freedom of my country against the invaders? No my friend, the ones who are to be blamed are the invaders and none else.

We are at war because you wanted to give away ALL of our island to Greece.As a result of this dastardly deed many TCs lost everything their ancestors worked hard to built for hundreds of years,my family amongst them...So don't talk to me about stolen land,you will get no sympathy...I blame you because you still want to turn Cyprus into a Greek island...I know you dont see us that way but the TCs are no invaders,we have been the inhabitans here for centuries...Get that into your thick skull.

Whose side will you be if/when we came to liberate our own lands? The side of those who fight for the freedom of Cyprus from the illegal Turkish occupation, or the side of the foreign Turkish army fighting to preserve an illegal occupation? If you will be helping the Turkish army with the crimes it commits against us (as most TCs do) then you are the enemy and should be treated accordingly. What else did you expect?

I don't know...you tell me ,Piratis...My land is near Paphos in the South...I have only been there for a visit once in 40 years,I found the houses I lived in demolished,and the place turned into a pig farm...Who do you think I should support? Who is my enemy,you tell me...

[Bananiot]

You are not being serious humanist. I am sorry but you are getting more childish as time goes by.

This is what the United Nations want both sides to do in Cyprus.

Reaffirms its position that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as described in the relevant Security Council resolutions, in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession;

If you are a super power you can disagree with the above. If not, you must be the village idiot to even contemplate a different kind of solution.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir they had to change that law the Eu whipped them into shape.

great to hear that,VP...

[GreekIslandGirl]

In my view as the Turks are putting forth unreasonable proposals we should be pushing for one cyprus no one gets 18% or 82%. One Cyprus one person = one vote anyone can run for Presidency.

That's logical and fair.

[BirKibrisli]

[quote="Piratis"]What we have now is bad. As time passes a solution might become harder to achieve with negotiations but our situation will not become any worst than it already is....{/quote]

You cannot see the forrest from the trees,Piratis...
You say as time passes a solution might become harder to achive with negotiations,and in the same breath you say your situation will not become any worse...Think ,man,think..
If the solution will not come via negotiations,how will it come??? And who will be in the worse situation than the GCs when this solution without negotiations comes about???

[Nikitas]

Thank you Bananiot for reminding us what these talks are supposed to bring about:

"a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as described in the relevant Security Council resolutions, in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession; "

So when we hear Gul, and Erdo, speak of two nations, two people, two religions on Cyprus how is that showing a realistic approach by the other side and an unrealistic position by the GCs?

Bananiot, do you appreciate that this is what your posts fail to clear for me.

How do you coordinate the above UN position with Soysal's statement that the TCs must make plans now for a possible secession in case the BBF solution does not work out? Why must I accept that Soysal, a former adviser to Denktash, is expressing a purely personal view?

[Nikitas]

Bir,

I notice in your reply to PIratis you talk of Enosis as a death sentence in the TC consience. So is partition for the GC conscience. But we have lived with partition for 36 years and have signed a future settlement which is partition with a politically correct name. In practical terms the TCs have won their Taksim, and do not seem willing to moderate it even to its politically correct form anymore.

Witness the statements by the highest political personalities of Turkey that there are two people, two states etc on the island, implying that reunification is not possible, at least not in the way the word is normally interpreted. When Erdo said that GCs will only be allowed back in the north for religious worship and nothing else, (he forgot the casinos and the brothels) how do you understand his statement and what message do you think the GCs receive from it? I understand that he gives the choice is between partition and partition and nothing else.

This inflexible approach justifies those that say our only mistake was not going for Enosis whole hearted, and that those who resisted the coup were wrong. Not my view, but it is out there. And it is hard to fault the logic when I listen to Erdo, Soysal and the like.

[Viewpoint]

Nikitas what do you want us to do? cave in, give up, accept GC majority rule? what is it?

[Nikitas]

Heavens sake! VP when did you ever see me post anyting about caving in etc?

Others here accuse me of being cynical when I say that BBF is partition with another name. Under this BBF thing we have agreed on, how can the TC community possibly be called to cave in and such? With a priori political equality, separate territory, separate administration, separate police etc.?

Apparently your leaders do not agree with you. The few points on which they tend to reach agreement quickly is the governance sections of the talks. It is the rest that seem problematic.