Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

Hermes how comes you have so much inside information, when the talks are held in secrecy? are you part of the negotiations team? or are you just pissing in the wind again. If you are getting your information from newspapers can you back up your claims with links.

I'm sorry, VP. This has all clearly come as a surprise to you. You obviously believed that Turkey was negotiating in good faith and was being constructive in the current talks! I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you. But the talks are stalled at the moment and look like they are going nowhere for the reasons I outlined. Sorry to disappoint you. Believe me we all want a solution. But not one which fulfills Turkey's strategic interests at the expense of Cypriots.That would be rewarding the transgressor and end up punishing the island even further.

[BirKibrisli]

You are so lazy at times, VP. You need things spelling out for you. The current proposals of the Turkish side provide for the dissolution of the Republic of Cyprus, the establishment of two equal state entities, a loose confederation and the maintaining of Turkey’s strategic control of Cyprus through guarantees. Under those conditions the Turkish army will apparently withdraw.

In addition, Turkey wants a settlement which will become EU Primary Law, to allow permanent derogations from the acquis communautaire. In other words, permanent violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms. So the Turkish army leaves, but on condition it leaves behind a divided island, with a neutered sovereignty and its citizens with a diminished status and loss of their EU rights and freedoms.

What on earth makes you think the GCs will accept such a "solution"? You must be mad if you think the GCs will consent to a legal dismemberment of the RoC and permanently assign themselves the status of second-class citizens on their own island. No thanks. We'll keep what we have. Freedom in the south and legal sovereignty over the north. Until such time as Turkey comes to its senses. Now why do you have a problem with that?

one of the best posts every,the t/c and turks think that the ROC will give up all they have achieved in 37 years if brutal invasion and occupation for 7 % land returned and stationing a barbarian army 40 miles back were it belongs that could invade again in 5 minutes and tack the whole island with these half backed plans.

i for one would rather see a agreed partition than with a 75-25% land distribution than the roc disolving itself and turning into a banana republic.

Just sit back and watch what would happen in the trnc,you know,that little entity just north of the green line,in the next 37 years,my dear Boulio...
2-3 million Turkish settlers,great industrialisation,pollution,and all that it implies for the rest of Cyprus...You will be begging little tnc to sell you some water in the future,so you can wash yourselves once a month...

[Get Real!]

Just sit back and watch what would happen in the trnc,you know,that little entity just north of the green line,in the next 37 years,my dear Boulio...
2-3 million Turkish settlers,great industrialisation,pollution,and all that it implies for the rest of Cyprus...You will be begging little tnc to sell you some water in the future,so you can wash yourselves once a month...

Err, we don't give Turkey that long Bir...

I think you underestimate the cunning, perseverance, and optimism of this side of the roadblock!

[Viewpoint]

Hermes how comes you have so much inside information, when the talks are held in secrecy? are you part of the negotiations team? or are you just pissing in the wind again. If you are getting your information from newspapers can you back up your claims with links.

I'm sorry, VP. This has all clearly come as a surprise to you. You obviously believed that Turkey was negotiating in good faith and was being constructive in the current talks! I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you. But the talks are stalled at the moment and look like they are going nowhere for the reasons I outlined. Sorry to disappoint you. Believe me we all want a solution. But not one which fulfills Turkey's strategic interests at the expense of Cypriots.That would be rewarding the transgressor and end up punishing the island even further.

Any independent links to back up your claims?

[Viewpoint]

Just sit back and watch what would happen in the trnc,you know,that little entity just north of the green line,in the next 37 years,my dear Boulio...
2-3 million Turkish settlers,great industrialisation,pollution,and all that it implies for the rest of Cyprus...You will be begging little tnc to sell you some water in the future,so you can wash yourselves once a month...

Err, we don't give Turkey that long Bir...

I think you underestimate the cunning, perseverance, and optimism of this side of the roadblock!

37 years and you are no closer to a solution now than you were back then.

[BirKibrisli]

.The point now is,will we agree to make the status quo permanent and move on with our separate lives,or will we agree to a compromise solution that might give us an opportunity to reunite as one nation,one people down the track...The GCs cannot have it both ways,Hermes...You cannot say,no we will never agree to making the status quo permanent AND,no, we will never agree to a compromise solution...This has been the sticking point all along...When you finally realise you have to chose between one of these options,the problem will be solved...If you keep sitting on the fence,there is no problem to be solved...Have I made myself clear???

What makes you think GCs are not willing to accept a compromise solution? You think Christofias is being unreasonable? The poor bloke is bending over backwards in search of a compromise and has met a brick wall! At present there is no suggestion that Turkey is interested in anything other than a loose confederation with derogations, guarantees and legalised partition. What makes you think it is remotely in the interests of Greek Cypriots to accept a "compromise" on these terms?

Meanwhile, Eroglu has turned up in Brussels saying he wants a settlement which will become EU Primary Law arguing for permanent derogations from the acquis communautaire. Can you tell me what is our incentive to agree to permanent violations of our human rights and fundamental freedoms? This isn't serious negotiating. It is time-wasting.

In other words the Turkish "compromise" on offer is the Turkish army withdraws from Cyprus but it leaves everything as it is. In exchange for a sliver of territory we lose the bulk of our land and property while the island is still effectively divided, with a limited sovereignty, the threat of future Turkish intervention and with Greek Cypriots subject to a diminished status and loss of their EU rights and freedoms. We have got no further than this!

I'm baffled you think the GCs will accept such a "compromise"? What makes you think we'll agree to a legalised assisted death of the RoC and assign ourselves the status of second-class citizens in our own island? What do you take us for?

That is why the overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots are content with keeping what we have: freedom in the south and sovereignty over the north. We don't have to agree to "go our separate ways". Why should we? We'll keep what we have, thank you. Until such time as it is no longer in Turkey's interest to occupy the north. However long it takes. Turkey keeps the occupation going but continues to pay a heavy economic and diplomatic price for it. We'll see to that.

I'm sorry if Turkey or the TCs find that inconvenient. But that is the overwhelming feeling in the free areas. If you think Turkey has approached the current talks in a spirit of compromise then we are worlds apart as to what a "compromise" actually involves.

Don't worry about what Eroglu says,Hermes...He is only playing Bad cop to Turkey's good cop...He will do what he is told to do eventually...He has no choice...You don't realise it now but you have no choice either...You are in Turkey's backyard and you will do what Turkey wants...I know it is cruel,but that is the reality...When you start drowning in the Turkish settler sea or industrialisation,air and water pollution,and other economic necessities you will beg for a BBF solution that will guarantee TC political dominance in the North and some form of Turkish guarantee for the Federation...If you are young enough you might live to see it...You might then remember old Bir who told you so half a century earlier...I will be watching you from the sky with tears in my eyes...

[BirKibrisli]

Just sit back and watch what would happen in the trnc,you know,that little entity just north of the green line,in the next 37 years,my dear Boulio...
2-3 million Turkish settlers,great industrialisation,pollution,and all that it implies for the rest of Cyprus...You will be begging little tnc to sell you some water in the future,so you can wash yourselves once a month...

Err, we don't give Turkey that long Bir...

I think you underestimate the cunning, perseverance, and optimism of this side of the roadblock!

Ermmm,you might be right,GR!
You might decide to wash yoursleves once a year...

[Get Real!]

Bir, when the glorious day comes… I’m gonna put in a good word for you because I’d hate for you to be one of those who have to ship out!

For old time’s sake… you invested via this forum and it ain’t going to waste!

[Hermes]

.You don't realise it now but you have no choice either...You are in Turkey's backyard and you will do what Turkey wants...I know it is cruel,but that is the reality...When you start drowning in the Turkish settler sea or industrialisation,air and water pollution,and other economic necessities you will beg for a BBF solution that will guarantee TC political dominance in the North and some form of Turkish guarantee for the Federation...If you are young enough you might live to see it...You might then remember old Bir who told you so half a century earlier...I will be watching you from the sky with tears in my eyes...

I think Turkey has recently discovered the limitations of its influence in its "backyard". Has Turkey stopped us exploiting our natural resources? Has it stopped us forming alliances in the region to further protect our interests and sovereignty? Since the oil and gas discoveries other interests in the Eastern Mediterranean have pushed Turkey back into its box: the EU, Israel, the US and Russia. Turkey is by no means king of its backyard anymore and little Cyprus has got some interesting allies these days.

As for Turkey developing the "TRNC" into some kind of industrial monster, I just can't see it. There is not enough work for the current population in the empty hotels and casinos. And why would Turkish firms invest in the "TRNC" and not Turkey? To manufacture what exactly? Export what? To where? The "TRNC" is a diminishing asset for Turkey. More trouble than it's worth. The day will dawn when Turkey will realize occupying Cyprus is no longer in its strategic interest. So don't worry too much. We're working on making life as difficult for Turkey as possible. We're a stubborn lot and we don't give in.

[Piratis]

We know that unless a solution is found soon,not only the unique TC identity and character would be extinguished in the North, but the unique GC identity and independence in the South would be threatened

How would the GC identity be threatened?

We want a solution more than anyone else. Unfortunately what you demand is anything but a solution for us. What you want is just to solve your own problems which are a consequence of your illegal occupation of our lands, by some arrangement which would merely legalize your illegalities and crimes. Such thing might be a solution to you, but it is definitely not a solution to us. Solution for us means liberation of the 1/3rd of Cyprus which is currently under occupation, removal of the Turkish Army and Settlers, so our human rights will be restored and we can democratically rule our whole island.

You must have a mind,Piratis,think...Without a solution you will have millions of settlers permanently in the trnc...They will need water and electricity to survive into the future...And so will you...Before long you will depend on the trnc and Turkey for everything,including water,and clean air...air because these "new TCs" will have to be accommodated economically,and that means large scale industrialisation over the next 50 years...That mean air pollution,and great drainage of water and other natural resources...It won't be too long before the ROC becomes the BigTaiwan to trnc's Little Taiwan...Think man think...Not all battles are won by the gun...

Bir, what you say is unrealistic. Cyprus in general has no competitive advantage to accommodate large scale industrialization. None of our water flows south from the north. It is rainwater, mostly from Troodos, and desalination plants.

I think you are really desperate. You want us to sacrifice ourselves in an attempt to save your own community from extinction. Sorry Bir but we can't do that. And even if we tried with the "solutions" you support, the result would not be saving the TC community, but fucking up the whole of Cyprus.

If you want to save your own community then you should direct your efforts in convincing your community that they should stop being the puppets of Turkey and that it is for their own interest to lower their demands to an acceptable for us level. You will have far more valid arguments to support this position rather than trying to convince us about millions of Settlers, large scale industrialization and air pollution.

The Settlers will never be in the many millions, but they can certainly be 10 times more than the TCs, and all of them could be given the so called "trnc citizenship". This "citizenship" means absolutely nothing for us, but for the TCs it will mean that while Turkey will be taking all the decisions for the strategic and important issues (as it is now), the Anatolian peasants will be deciding for everything else that affects your daily life (something which didn't happen yet, but it will).