Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Of course what you say would be the ideal situation. Unfortunately, the TCs have some security concerns. We too have security concerns, which is why we can never accept a unilateral Treaty of Guarantee from Turkey or any other country for that matter, but especially unstable Turkey. However, in order to satisfy every one's security concerns, imagined or true, we may need to enter into some kind of arrangement for a period of time. We will not be able to insist on the "all or nothing", because that only guarantees the perpetuation of the problem. We want a solution, and let them fall on their swords by taking the "all or nothing" approach if that is what they are going to continue to do. This is what will defeat them eventually, and anyone with a brain can work it out.

I don't think the EU requires ANY form of (imposed) guarantees from foreign parties for security within its borders.

The foreign party will eventually not be so foreign and will find itself within the same borders, presuming Turkey overcomes the many obstacles.

EU Guarantees is something that is palatable, as no one has unilateral intervention rights, and the EU can station a small force for a period of time. The Guarantee will not be indefinite.

I think you seem to have missed the point. There is no need for any extra guarantees. The guarantees are inherent with EU membership. Therefore, the RoC has all it requires without the need for any further, (imposed) guarantees - and we especially unnecessary are those guarantees from countries (Turkey) who are desperate to find some means to associate themselves more with the EU. And finally, IMHO, the sooner we stop referring to Turkey as a potential EU member, the sooner we can move towards removing Turkey from Cyprus.

[aikhme]

Of course what you say would be the ideal situation. Unfortunately, the TCs have some security concerns. We too have security concerns, which is why we can never accept a unilateral Treaty of Guarantee from Turkey or any other country for that matter, but especially unstable Turkey. However, in order to satisfy every one's security concerns, imagined or true, we may need to enter into some kind of arrangement for a period of time. We will not be able to insist on the "all or nothing", because that only guarantees the perpetuation of the problem. We want a solution, and let them fall on their swords by taking the "all or nothing" approach if that is what they are going to continue to do. This is what will defeat them eventually, and anyone with a brain can work it out.

I don't think the EU requires ANY form of (imposed) guarantees from foreign parties for security within its borders.

The foreign party will eventually not be so foreign and will find itself within the same borders, presuming Turkey overcomes the many obstacles.

EU Guarantees is something that is palatable, as no one has unilateral intervention rights, and the EU can station a small force for a period of time. The Guarantee will not be indefinite.

I think you seem to have missed the point. There is no need for any extra guarantees. The guarantees are inherent with EU membership. Therefore, the RoC has all it requires without the need for any further, (imposed) guarantees - and we especially unnecessary are those guarantees from countries (Turkey) who are desperate to find some means to associate themselves more with the EU. And finally, IMHO, the sooner we stop referring to Turkey as a potential EU member, the sooner we can move towards removing Turkey from Cyprus.

No I think you have missed the point. I made no mention of any Guarantees from Turkey. What I do mention are specific Security concerns which need to be addressed in transition, and can be addressed by the EU when it establishes its own defence doctrines independent of NATO, and the EU Acquis which will offer indefinite Guarantees.

[Viewpoint]

Thank you aike for displaying clearly why there will never be a solution in Cyprus, the chasm is just to wide and neither side has the slightest intention of bridging it....as soon as you cannot cope with what is being debated which is outside of your "demand2 box instead of using persuasion you attack by name calling. Well we can go on like this forever you can always try and stop things but 37 years proves me right and you wrong. We will return to our Turkish roots and you can lick your palms (old Turkish saying) from across the border.

I called you a fascist because that is EXACTLY what you are.

The chasm you speak about is only wide amongst fascists such as you, and others on your side and ours. On our side, their power is marginalised, as it should be. On your side I am not so sure anymore.

If there is no solution, then you will lose far more than what we ever will. We will continue to thrive and go from strength to strength. I pity the young TCs that you will condemn from your very own hatred and arrogance, most who will suffer through no fault of their own. And remember, if there is no solution, then the situation will eventually solve itself in a number of years, but it will not be to your liking. This may be a paradox, but no solution means you will lose it all, and won't even have a BBF or anything else that is on the table right now from our side.

In the end, you will dig your own hole VP, but alas, you will take down many with you, and that is the biggest shame of all.

The alternative is far worse, you have nothing to offer us in a united Cyprus, I have asked you many times to convince us what will change and how will you prevent a GC majority power from discriminating against TCs in everyday life.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Of course what you say would be the ideal situation. Unfortunately, the TCs have some security concerns. We too have security concerns, which is why we can never accept a unilateral Treaty of Guarantee from Turkey or any other country for that matter, but especially unstable Turkey. However, in order to satisfy every one's security concerns, imagined or true, we may need to enter into some kind of arrangement for a period of time. We will not be able to insist on the "all or nothing", because that only guarantees the perpetuation of the problem. We want a solution, and let them fall on their swords by taking the "all or nothing" approach if that is what they are going to continue to do. This is what will defeat them eventually, and anyone with a brain can work it out.

I don't think the EU requires ANY form of (imposed) guarantees from foreign parties for security within its borders.

The foreign party will eventually not be so foreign and will find itself within the same borders, presuming Turkey overcomes the many obstacles.

EU Guarantees is something that is palatable, as no one has unilateral intervention rights, and the EU can station a small force for a period of time. The Guarantee will not be indefinite.

I think you seem to have missed the point. There is no need for any extra guarantees. The guarantees are inherent with EU membership. Therefore, the RoC has all it requires without the need for any further, (imposed) guarantees - and we especially unnecessary are those guarantees from countries (Turkey) who are desperate to find some means to associate themselves more with the EU. And finally, IMHO, the sooner we stop referring to Turkey as a potential EU member, the sooner we can move towards removing Turkey from Cyprus.

No I think you have missed the point. I made no mention of any Guarantees from Turkey. What I do mention are specific Security concerns which need to be addressed in transition, and can be addressed by the EU when it establishes its own defence doctrines independent of NATO, and the EU Acquis which will offer indefinite Guarantees.

But you said above, "The foreign party will eventually not be so foreign and will find itself within the same borders, presuming Turkey overcomes the many obstacles." Also, now you contradict your earlier statement that the EU "Guarantee will not be indefinite".

[aikhme]

Thank you aike for displaying clearly why there will never be a solution in Cyprus, the chasm is just to wide and neither side has the slightest intention of bridging it....as soon as you cannot cope with what is being debated which is outside of your "demand2 box instead of using persuasion you attack by name calling. Well we can go on like this forever you can always try and stop things but 37 years proves me right and you wrong. We will return to our Turkish roots and you can lick your palms (old Turkish saying) from across the border.

I called you a fascist because that is EXACTLY what you are.

The chasm you speak about is only wide amongst fascists such as you, and others on your side and ours. On our side, their power is marginalised, as it should be. On your side I am not so sure anymore.

If there is no solution, then you will lose far more than what we ever will. We will continue to thrive and go from strength to strength. I pity the young TCs that you will condemn from your very own hatred and arrogance, most who will suffer through no fault of their own. And remember, if there is no solution, then the situation will eventually solve itself in a number of years, but it will not be to your liking. This may be a paradox, but no solution means you will lose it all, and won't even have a BBF or anything else that is on the table right now from our side.

In the end, you will dig your own hole VP, but alas, you will take down many with you, and that is the biggest shame of all.

The alternative is far worse, you have nothing to offer us in a united Cyprus, I have asked you many times to convince us what will change and how will you prevent a GC majority power from discriminating against TCs in everyday life.

VP, there is no way I am able to convince a fascist like you and this is despite the RoC offering nearly everything under the sun. The biggest compromise of all the BBF, which means you will administer your own zone, and another thing that has been mentioned but has not been agreed to is rotational power sharing. All this for absolutely nothing in return.

[aikhme]

That's right, it is very likely that Turkey will become an EU member down the track, with Greek and RoC support.

[Viewpoint]

Thank you aike for displaying clearly why there will never be a solution in Cyprus, the chasm is just to wide and neither side has the slightest intention of bridging it....as soon as you cannot cope with what is being debated which is outside of your "demand2 box instead of using persuasion you attack by name calling. Well we can go on like this forever you can always try and stop things but 37 years proves me right and you wrong. We will return to our Turkish roots and you can lick your palms (old Turkish saying) from across the border.

I called you a fascist because that is EXACTLY what you are.

The chasm you speak about is only wide amongst fascists such as you, and others on your side and ours. On our side, their power is marginalised, as it should be. On your side I am not so sure anymore.

If there is no solution, then you will lose far more than what we ever will. We will continue to thrive and go from strength to strength. I pity the young TCs that you will condemn from your very own hatred and arrogance, most who will suffer through no fault of their own. And remember, if there is no solution, then the situation will eventually solve itself in a number of years, but it will not be to your liking. This may be a paradox, but no solution means you will lose it all, and won't even have a BBF or anything else that is on the table right now from our side.

In the end, you will dig your own hole VP, but alas, you will take down many with you, and that is the biggest shame of all.

The alternative is far worse, you have nothing to offer us in a united Cyprus, I have asked you many times to convince us what will change and how will you prevent a GC majority power from discriminating against TCs in everyday life.

VP, there is no way I am able to convince a fascist like you and this is despite the RoC offering nearly everything under the sun. The biggest compromise of all the BBF, which means you will administer your own zone, and another thing that has been mentioned but has not been agreed to is rotational power sharing. All this for absolutely nothing in return.

You still dont get it. why do I trust Bananiot with my future in a unitary state and not you?

[B25]

Thank you aike for displaying clearly why there will never be a solution in Cyprus, the chasm is just to wide and neither side has the slightest intention of bridging it....as soon as you cannot cope with what is being debated which is outside of your "demand2 box instead of using persuasion you attack by name calling. Well we can go on like this forever you can always try and stop things but 37 years proves me right and you wrong. We will return to our Turkish roots and you can lick your palms (old Turkish saying) from across the border.

I called you a fascist because that is EXACTLY what you are.

The chasm you speak about is only wide amongst fascists such as you, and others on your side and ours. On our side, their power is marginalised, as it should be. On your side I am not so sure anymore.

If there is no solution, then you will lose far more than what we ever will. We will continue to thrive and go from strength to strength. I pity the young TCs that you will condemn from your very own hatred and arrogance, most who will suffer through no fault of their own. And remember, if there is no solution, then the situation will eventually solve itself in a number of years, but it will not be to your liking. This may be a paradox, but no solution means you will lose it all, and won't even have a BBF or anything else that is on the table right now from our side.

In the end, you will dig your own hole VP, but alas, you will take down many with you, and that is the biggest shame of all.

The alternative is far worse, you have nothing to offer us in a united Cyprus, I have asked you many times to convince us what will change and how will you prevent a GC majority power from discriminating against TCs in everyday life.

VP, there is no way I am able to convince a fascist like you and this is despite the RoC offering nearly everything under the sun. The biggest compromise of all the BBF, which means you will administer your own zone, and another thing that has been mentioned but has not been agreed to is rotational power sharing. All this for absolutely nothing in return.

You still dont get it. why do I trust Bananiot with my future in a unitary state and not you?

Bacause Banana is a defeatist and will sell his soul to the devil just to appease you. There is an extremely small number that think the way he does, so don't get your hopes up.

[Hermes]

What I do mention are specific Security concerns which need to be addressed in transition, and can be addressed by the EU when it establishes its own defence doctrines independent of NATO, and the EU Acquis which will offer indefinite Guarantees.

There is already a European body skilled in short-term peace-keeping operations - the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE):

It has expertise covering a range of conflict management tasks, having undertaken missions throughout the Balkans, the Caucasus and Central Asia. The other advantage is that its 56 members include all the main protagonists – Cyprus, Turkey, Greece, Britain, Russia, the United States and the other members of the European Union. It would therefore seem to be a good candidate for some sort of conflict management role in Cyprus after a settlement.

See James Ker-Lindsay's paper on The Security Dimensions of a Cyprus Solution:
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/22027/1/GreeSE_No19.pdf

[Viewpoint]

B25

Bacause Banana is a defeatist and will sell his soul to the devil just to appease you. There is an extremely small number that think the way he does, so don't get your hopes up.

This is something you will never understand, the difference between you and him is that he can have a unitary state whereas people like you are not trusted and have to be constrained to a BBF with equal political status of the 2 states, plus guarantees etc etc. If the majority of GCs had 50% of what Bananiot has you would have solved the Cyprus issue years ago.