Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

VP and Bananiot,you are wasting your time and energy ,my friends....These people will never understand...They never had to sleep with a shotgun under their beds when they were children...They never knew the fear of death some of us was subjected to growing up in Cyprus....They were never humiliated in long queues at checkpoints when they wanted to visit their relatives in another part of the island...They never had loved ones disappear by busloads,from hospital beds,from their villages....I am not saying terrible things did not happen to individual GCs,but these posters here never had personal experience of it...You talk about mistrust and personal security,they talk about higher living standards,EU aquies,UN resolutions etc...They have never faced extinction as a community or as a nation...They have no idea where you are coming from....That is why there will never be a solution in our lifetime....I admire your tenacity,and wish I had your patience to deal with these blind people...As I used to say, "there is no one as blind as those who refuse to see"....

[Hermes]

VP and Bananiot,you are wasting your time and energy ,my friends....These people will never understand...They never had to sleep with a shotgun under their beds when they were children...They never knew the fear of death some of us was subjected to growing up in Cyprus....They were never humiliated in long queues at checkpoints when they wanted to visit their relatives in another part of the island...They never had loved ones disappear by busloads,from hospital beds,from their villages....I am not saying terrible things did not happen to individual GCs,but these posters here never had personal experience of it...You talk about mistrust and personal security,they talk about higher living standards,EU aquies,UN resolutions etc...They have never faced extinction as a community or as a nation...They have no idea where you are coming from....That is why there will never be a solution in our lifetime....I admire your tenacity,and wish I had your patience to deal with these blind people...As I used to say, "there is no one as blind as those who refuse to see"....

GCs experienced all this and much, much worse. On a scale you don't even understand or acknowledge. That is why we will never accept a solution on Turkish terms. Turkey has underestimated the resilience and tenacity of GCs to overturn the injustice of the occupation and to rebuild their shattered land. That is why with limited resources and virtually no help from the outside world GCs have turned their small country into an EU member with a high standard of living, gained respect and confirmed their legal sovereignty over the island for all Cypriots. Turkey is left as a barbaric occupier twisting and turning to avoid its responsibilities. GCs will do what is right for them and not what suits outside interests. You should have learnt that lesson by now.

[GreekIslandGirl]

These people will never understand...They never had to sleep with a shotgun under their beds when they were children...(

Not just shotguns, but you told us you also slept with bombs and allsorts of ammunition courtesy of your father's TMT activities. Sorry you had such a twisetd upbringing, but it explains your attempts to distort Cyprus' history.

[BirKibrisli]

These people will never understand...They never had to sleep with a shotgun under their beds when they were children...(

Not just shotguns, but you told us you also slept with bombs and allsorts of ammunition courtesy of your father's TMT activities. Sorry you had such a twisetd upbringing, but it explains your attempts to distort Cyprus' history.

You know very well that originally the TMT was there to protect the innocent TCs from the EOKA hordes...Those weapons were badly needed for our protection,and they did the job...Father and his men never had to fire a shot at anyone during those heady years of 1957-58....No amount of denial on your part will change that part of our history,Oracle....Good try...

[Viewpoint]

VP and Bananiot,

Here is protocol 10 of the Annex to the treaty of accession of Cyprus and the other 9 new members, signed on 16/04/2003. Read it and reach your own conclusions.

No country, let alone any EU member state can legally recognise the "TRNC". The UK and even the US are unable to contradict any International Treaty which the entire EU has signed. If you have any knowledge about international politics and relations, then you would know this as fact and something which can't be undermined by anyone.

Protocol No 10 on Cyprus
THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES,

Reaffirming their commitment to a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem, consistent with
relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions, and their strong support for the efforts of the United
Nations Secretary General to that end,

Considering that such a comprehensive settlement to the Cyprus problem has not yet been reached,
Considering that it is, therefore, necessary to provide for the suspension of the application of the acquis
in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic of Cyprus does not
exercise effective control,

Considering that, in the event of a solution to the Cyprus problem this suspension shall be lifted,
Considering that the European Union is ready to accommodate the terms of such a settlement in line
with the principles on which the EU is founded,

Considering that it is necessary to provide for the terms under which the relevant provisions of EU law
will apply to the line between the above mentioned areas and both those areas in which the Government of
the Republic of Cyprus exercises effective control and the Eastern Sovereign Base Area of the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,

Desiring that the accession of Cyprus to the European Union shall benefit all Cypriot citizens and
promote civil peace and reconciliation,

Considering, therefore, that nothing in this Protocol shall preclude measures with this end in view,

Considering that such measures shall not affect the application of the acquis under the conditions set out
in the Accession Treaty in any other part of the Republic of Cyprus,

HAVE AGREED UPON THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS:

Article 1
1. The application of the acquis shall be suspended in those
areas of the Republic of Cyprus in which the Government of
the Republic of Cyprus does not exercise effective control.
2. The Council, acting unanimously on the basis of a
proposal from the Commission, shall decide on the withdrawal
of the suspension referred to in paragraph 1.

Article 2
1. The Council, acting unanimously on the basis of a
proposal from the Commission, shall define the terms under
which the provisions of EU law shall apply to the line between
those areas referred to in Article 1 and the areas in which the
Government of the Republic of Cyprus exercises effective
control.
2. The boundary between the Eastern Sovereign Base Area
and those areas referred to in Article 1 shall be treated as part
of the external borders of the Sovereign Base Areas for the
purpose of Part IV of the Annex to the Protocol on the
Sovereign Base Areas of the United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland in Cyprus for the duration of the
suspension of the application of the acquis according to
Article 1.

Article 3
1. Nothing in this Protocol shall preclude measures with a
view to promoting the economic development of the areas
referred to in Article 1.
2. Such measures shall not affect the application of the
acquis under the conditions set out in the Accession Treaty
in any other part of the Republic of Cyprus.

Article 4
In the event of a settlement, the Council, acting unanimously
on the basis of a proposal from the Commission, shall decide
on the adaptations to the terms concerning the accession of
Cyprus to the European Union with regard to the Turkish
Cypriot Community.

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/ ... 310956.pdf (pages 24-25)

To simplify matters, what the treaty clearly states is this;

1. The Republic of Cyprus is recognized by the EU and each of its member states as the only authority that has the de jure sovereignty over of the entire territory of Cyprus (except the British Bases).

2. The EU accepts the Republic of Cyprus as the de jure sovereign entity representing the entire island (except the British Bases) to accede into the European Union.

3. The EU grants a temporary derogation to the RoC in which it can suspend the implementation of the EU Acquis in the areas in which it cannot exercise effective control, due to the prohibition or inhibition to it to do so by the presence of the Turkish Army.

4. It doesn’t accept or recognize the existence of any other sovereign entity on the island because it only recognizes the RoC as the only entity which has dejure sovereignty over the entire island, which includes the area where the EU Acquis is suspended.

5. The EU accepts that within the areas in which the RoC cannot exercise full control, exists the TC community who are also legal citizens of the RoC and with which the RoC has a certain political dispute, and this is also the reason why Turkey claims, contrary to the all the existing UN Resolutions, the need to maintain its military presence. It therefore concedes that should the internal political dispute between the RoC and the TC Community be resolved, then Turkey should have no reason to have a military presence and that those areas will also come under the de facto control of the RoC, or the entity that will legally succeed it according to the terms of the agreement.

6. Pending such an agreement, the RoC continues to be the de jure sovereign entity of the entire, as per the terms of the above treaty of accession.

7. The terms of the treaty of accession may not be changed or modified, without the consent of the RoC and each EU member state.

8. Any action contrary to the terms of the above treaty of accession by any member state of the EU, will naturally and inevitably be condemned, and the country that perpetrated it, will be liable for violating the treaty of accession, which it also co-signed, and be subject to punitive measures which may include expulsion.

Which begs the question. Will all Cypriots feel more secure as an EU member state, or not?

Your arguments are very shaky, and without logic, and both of you know this.

So aike does that mean the EU will give you the north back? How long has it been 7 years and zilch not one inch of land has been returned not one new generation TC has gone back and not one Turkish soldiers has departed....now whos barking up the wrong tree?

[Viewpoint]

Another logical fantasy from DT. He is proving to be a master at deception but a straw man has short legs. Viewpoint said that he would quite happily live in a unitary Cyprus provided the mistrust between the two communities is replaced by good will and mutual respect. How can he not commend this approach? Probably DT thinks that this game is like a football match and in this case I can excuse his fallacy. Mistrust has been built over many decades and sealed with murder, summary executions and all sort of illegalities. It cannot be wiped out with the stroke of a pen. A transitional period is needed, after all, 37 years have already gone by since 1974. The behaviour of the two communities during the transition period will decide if we deserve a unitary Cyprus.

Those whom I asked to show me a way forward and the means to achieve their aspiration, could only come out with the following "Keep things as they are and wait on the sidelines". This is the best they can do. Can somebody inform them that things never stay as they are and that each day that passes by consolidates the partition of Cyprus? These people surely understand this simple truth, and I can only assume that in fact they prefer partition but do not have the decency to say it, loud and clear.

My mistake, how could I have gotten VP so wrong. He's been for a united Cyprus all this time and no one here's realised it. I remember even your friend Bir was his sworn enemy at some point before the "switch". Perhaps Bir was also mislead when he was calling him a partitionist.

Just to be clear I also want a BBF provided it is not racist, allows for the return of all refugees and leaves no leverage for Turkey to invade again under a supposed new Treaty of Guarantee. Will you commend me as well for acting like VP and adding my caveats? Have you asked VP how he proposes his caveats to a united Cyprus be satisfied?

And one more thing, where do you stand on your friend VP's statement regarding living in a Greek language free country? I can dig his comment up if you like? I believe it went something like " I don't want my children growing up in a country where Greek is spoken."

Once again, I must have misunderstood him all along. I'm not a master of deception at all Banana, I just have an annoyingly good memory.

You still dont get it do you? I trust Bananiot 100% so I have no problem living in a unitary state where people like him are at the helm but when all is taken into consideration unfortunately he is a minority and we are left with people like you Piratis B25 Sotos and co being the dangerous majority whom I will never trust therefore demanding partition land return for recognition or at worst a BBf with derogation's security and guarantees. Now do you get it?

Why cant i have the right to raise my children in a mainly Turkish speaking environment? whats so wrong about this desire? what gives you GCs that right and not me?

[GreekIslandGirl]

These people will never understand...They never had to sleep with a shotgun under their beds when they were children...(

Not just shotguns, but you told us you also slept with bombs and allsorts of ammunition courtesy of your father's TMT activities. Sorry you had such a twisetd upbringing, but it explains your attempts to distort Cyprus' history.

You know very well that originally the TMT was there to protect the innocent TCs from the EOKA hordes...Those weapons were badly needed for our protection,and they did the job...Father and his men never had to fire a shot at anyone during those heady years of 1957-58....No amount of denial on your part will change that part of our history,Oracle....Good try...

The EOKA "hordes" were a few men who fought the Imperialists for Cyprus' freedom - so I can well understand Turkish expansionists would rush in to grab what they could whilst the natives were busy defending Cyprus. As far as; your father 'never had to fire a shot' - I'm afraid we only have your word for it, since fire and shoot, bomb and kill they did! And if I used Bananiot's and your logic, then you are as guilty as hell and you as his descendant, plus all your people should be punished forevermore for your father's TMT involvement.



The Turkish Terrorist Organisation T.M.T.

The first inter-communal violence in the recent history of Cyprus was, in fact, caused by T.M.T. This was the result of a policy of hate cultivated by the Turkish Cypriot leadership and it aimed at persuading world public opinion that Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist with Greek Cypriots and, therefore, partition in one form or another was necessary. On 12 June 1958 eight innocent and unarmed Greek Cypriot civilians from Kondemenos village were murdered by T.M.T. terrorists near the Turkish populated village of Geunyeli. That was the first incident involving human lives. According to the findings of the "Commission of Inquiry into the Incidents at Geunyeli" (appointed by the British colonial administration), which were also included in the official report of Sir Paget Bourke, Chief Justice of Cyprus, "for some days prior to 12 June, in fact from 7 June, inter-communal feeling was running very high in the island and there had been many instances of attacks by Turks, particularly in Nicosia, upon members of the Greek community and upon Greek property". There is no reference to attacks on Turkish Cypriots as there were no such attacks. The T.M.T. terrorists attacked again in 1963. This is evidenced by the fact that they were found in possession of vast quantities of arms. Moreover, Turkish intentions were revealed in the "Deniz" incident when the Turkish ship full of arms was sent to Cyprus as early as 1959, after the conclusion of the Agreement on Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

So I am still waiting to be persuaded to demand union with GCs in the EU and tell Turkey to leave us alone. You GCs talk out of your arses all hot air.

[bill cobbett]

So I am still waiting to be persuaded to demand union with GCs in the EU and tell Turkey to leave us alone. You GCs talk out of your arses all hot air.

Well if you feel the "GCs talk out of your arses all hot air" ... why don't you step outside your front door and ask your fellow CYs living directly under the "Orrible Occupation why they are telling Turkey to "Go Asihktir", demanding Re-Unification, demanding Regime Change and who have had enough of the False Promises from Turkey and its Settler Dominated Regime ... perhaps they could convince you.

[bill cobbett]

VP and Bananiot,you are wasting your time and energy ,my friends....These people will never understand...They never had to sleep with a shotgun under their beds when they were children...They never knew the fear of death some of us was subjected to growing up in Cyprus....They were never humiliated in long queues at checkpoints when they wanted to visit their relatives in another part of the island...They never had loved ones disappear by busloads,from hospital beds,from their villages....I am not saying terrible things did not happen to individual GCs,but these posters here never had personal experience of it...You talk about mistrust and personal security,they talk about higher living standards,EU aquies,UN resolutions etc...They have never faced extinction as a community or as a nation...They have no idea where you are coming from....That is why there will never be a solution in our lifetime....I admire your tenacity,and wish I had your patience to deal with these blind people...As I used to say, "there is no one as blind as those who refuse to see"....

Bir my dear, regrettably have to say that it is pretty clear to me, that you in common with practically everyone of the Older Generations are a majority part of the problem.

This Shotgun under the Bed mentality, this over-weight and untrusting baggage allowance from the past being carried in to the present and future is no way forward.

Now, if you'll excuse me ... will go and see how to give the younger generation occupying the Buffer Zone of the Mind a little help.