Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

GR

For starters, pretty much everything here is of a higher standard than in the “TRNC” and these standards would be extended throughout the island including European laws and values spreading to all four corners of Cyprus.

You are joking arent you? like what?

Where do I start! Infrastructure, medical services, sporting facilities, govt grants and schemes, housing standards, ports, …the only thing being the same is the weather!

Have you been north???

I have been south? and it aint as you believe, have you seen our roads? sports complexes? new hospital, villas, new ports and Turkish funding???? I have seen yours and its not what you claim, even your airport is second rate to ours which we had first.

GR is that it??? is that what you think will entice TCs to say to hell with Turkey we can have a much better life if we unite with the south.

[Hermes]

Have you been north???

I have been south? and it aint as you believe, have you seen our roads? sports complexes? new hospital, villas, new ports and Turkish funding???? I have seen yours and its not what you claim, even your airport is second rate to ours which we had first.

VP, stop making a fool of yourself. You cannot claim in all seriousness you have been to the free areas if you think the north's living standards and infrastructure are in any way comparable with the free areas. The ROC has by common consent a high European standard of living. Whereas the "trnc" has about a third to half the per capita GDP of the south.

[Viewpoint]

Have you been north???

I have been south? and it aint as you believe, have you seen our roads? sports complexes? new hospital, villas, new ports and Turkish funding???? I have seen yours and its not what you claim, even your airport is second rate to ours which we had first.

VP, stop making a fool of yourself. You cannot claim in all seriousness you have been to the free areas if you think the north's living standards and infrastructure are in any way comparable with the free areas. The ROC has by common consent a high European standard of living. Whereas the "trnc" has about a third to half the per capita GDP of the south.

You still are not giving me anything concrete, how will my life as TC be any better to move me towards demanding union with GCs and away from Turkey? What GR as stated is not enough as I have what you offer better or worse its there and we use it everyday.

What do you do with your higher GDP that I cannot? (please allow for your higher cost of living)

[Hermes]

You still are not giving me anything concrete, how will my life as TC be any better to move me towards demanding union with GCs and away from Turkey?

I think you'll probably feel worse off, VP. It's going to be one hell of a shock when Turkey leaves. I really don't know how you're going to cope. Seriously, I'd be very worried. WTF are you going to do?

[Viewpoint]

You still are not giving me anything concrete, how will my life as TC be any better to move me towards demanding union with GCs and away from Turkey?

I think you'll probably feel worse off, VP. It's going to be one hell of a shock when Turkey leaves. I really don't know how you're going to cope. Seriously, I'd be very worried. WTF are you going to do?

Its exactly these remarks that take us nowhere, you have nothing to offer, its all superficial. Your saying hand back 37% for what? Change your whole lives for what? replace the Turks with GCs for what? Im being very serious here because if you put some concrete explanations up and convince the TCs that the GC/EU road is far superior than that of Turkeys then people from the north would gladly unite or at worst be moving south in droves to your "promised land".

All the peddlers of EU aquis, democracy, equality and human rights for all have suddenly gone deafeningly quiet, lets see you transfer your text book mentality into Cyprus reality.

[DT.]

aike Bananiot is a seasoned forumer and does not have to explain himself over and over again, he clearly understands that you cannot force your text book solution onto the TCs as there are many factors which your not taking into consideration, the biggest being a total mistrust between the two major communities. You feel that by quoting democracy human rights and freedom that everything will fall in place? its doesnt work that way thats why a solution will never be found, we demand security and guarantees where as Gcs want the freedom to do as they wish which we feel will be to our detrement as they have a great track record in dealing with TCs. Bananiot realizes understands and makes allowances for the fears, concerns and mistrust of TCs...pity there are not more like him I would sign on the dotted line tomorrow for a unitary state with GCs like Bananiot at the helm.

So try showing some respect to this sensitive and highly intelligent individaual.

One of Bananiots most treasured arguments is how Denktash and Papadopoulos joined forces against the Annan Plan. Explaining to us all how we managed to do what Denktash wanted to. Yet here you are, the forums biggest partitionist standing side by side and agreeing with Bananiot. You've managed to destroy at least 6 of his recycled arguments in one go.

[Bananiot]

Another logical fantasy from DT. He is proving to be a master at deception but a straw man has short legs. Viewpoint said that he would quite happily live in a unitary Cyprus provided the mistrust between the two communities is replaced by good will and mutual respect. How can he not commend this approach? Probably DT thinks that this game is like a football match and in this case I can excuse his fallacy. Mistrust has been built over many decades and sealed with murder, summary executions and all sort of illegalities. It cannot be wiped out with the stroke of a pen. A transitional period is needed, after all, 37 years have already gone by since 1974. The behaviour of the two communities during the transition period will decide if we deserve a unitary Cyprus.

Those whom I asked to show me a way forward and the means to achieve their aspiration, could only come out with the following "Keep things as they are and wait on the sidelines". This is the best they can do. Can somebody inform them that things never stay as they are and that each day that passes by consolidates the partition of Cyprus? These people surely understand this simple truth, and I can only assume that in fact they prefer partition but do not have the decency to say it, loud and clear.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Judging from the above posts: the solution is for those like Bananiot and Viewpoint (who lay claim to so much "mistrust" of Democracy and Human Rights), to simply leave Cyprus once and for all.

[aikhme]

VP and Bananiot,

Here is protocol 10 of the Annex to the treaty of accession of Cyprus and the other 9 new members, signed on 16/04/2003. Read it and reach your own conclusions.

No country, let alone any EU member state can legally recognise the "TRNC". The UK and even the US are unable to contradict any International Treaty which the entire EU has signed. If you have any knowledge about international politics and relations, then you would know this as fact and something which can't be undermined by anyone.

Protocol No 10 on Cyprus
THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES,

Reaffirming their commitment to a comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus problem, consistent with
relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions, and their strong support for the efforts of the United
Nations Secretary General to that end,

Considering that such a comprehensive settlement to the Cyprus problem has not yet been reached,
Considering that it is, therefore, necessary to provide for the suspension of the application of the acquis
in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic of Cyprus does not
exercise effective control,

Considering that, in the event of a solution to the Cyprus problem this suspension shall be lifted,
Considering that the European Union is ready to accommodate the terms of such a settlement in line
with the principles on which the EU is founded,

Considering that it is necessary to provide for the terms under which the relevant provisions of EU law
will apply to the line between the above mentioned areas and both those areas in which the Government of
the Republic of Cyprus exercises effective control and the Eastern Sovereign Base Area of the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,

Desiring that the accession of Cyprus to the European Union shall benefit all Cypriot citizens and
promote civil peace and reconciliation,

Considering, therefore, that nothing in this Protocol shall preclude measures with this end in view,

Considering that such measures shall not affect the application of the acquis under the conditions set out
in the Accession Treaty in any other part of the Republic of Cyprus,

HAVE AGREED UPON THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS:

Article 1
1. The application of the acquis shall be suspended in those
areas of the Republic of Cyprus in which the Government of
the Republic of Cyprus does not exercise effective control.
2. The Council, acting unanimously on the basis of a
proposal from the Commission, shall decide on the withdrawal
of the suspension referred to in paragraph 1.

Article 2
1. The Council, acting unanimously on the basis of a
proposal from the Commission, shall define the terms under
which the provisions of EU law shall apply to the line between
those areas referred to in Article 1 and the areas in which the
Government of the Republic of Cyprus exercises effective
control.
2. The boundary between the Eastern Sovereign Base Area
and those areas referred to in Article 1 shall be treated as part
of the external borders of the Sovereign Base Areas for the
purpose of Part IV of the Annex to the Protocol on the
Sovereign Base Areas of the United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland in Cyprus for the duration of the
suspension of the application of the acquis according to
Article 1.

Article 3
1. Nothing in this Protocol shall preclude measures with a
view to promoting the economic development of the areas
referred to in Article 1.
2. Such measures shall not affect the application of the
acquis under the conditions set out in the Accession Treaty
in any other part of the Republic of Cyprus.

Article 4
In the event of a settlement, the Council, acting unanimously
on the basis of a proposal from the Commission, shall decide
on the adaptations to the terms concerning the accession of
Cyprus to the European Union with regard to the Turkish
Cypriot Community.

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/ ... 310956.pdf (pages 24-25)

To simplify matters, what the treaty clearly states is this;

1. The Republic of Cyprus is recognized by the EU and each of its member states as the only authority that has the de jure sovereignty over of the entire territory of Cyprus (except the British Bases).

2. The EU accepts the Republic of Cyprus as the de jure sovereign entity representing the entire island (except the British Bases) to accede into the European Union.

3. The EU grants a temporary derogation to the RoC in which it can suspend the implementation of the EU Acquis in the areas in which it cannot exercise effective control, due to the prohibition or inhibition to it to do so by the presence of the Turkish Army.

4. It doesn’t accept or recognize the existence of any other sovereign entity on the island because it only recognizes the RoC as the only entity which has dejure sovereignty over the entire island, which includes the area where the EU Acquis is suspended.

5. The EU accepts that within the areas in which the RoC cannot exercise full control, exists the TC community who are also legal citizens of the RoC and with which the RoC has a certain political dispute, and this is also the reason why Turkey claims, contrary to the all the existing UN Resolutions, the need to maintain its military presence. It therefore concedes that should the internal political dispute between the RoC and the TC Community be resolved, then Turkey should have no reason to have a military presence and that those areas will also come under the de facto control of the RoC, or the entity that will legally succeed it according to the terms of the agreement.

6. Pending such an agreement, the RoC continues to be the de jure sovereign entity of the entire, as per the terms of the above treaty of accession.

7. The terms of the treaty of accession may not be changed or modified, without the consent of the RoC and each EU member state.

8. Any action contrary to the terms of the above treaty of accession by any member state of the EU, will naturally and inevitably be condemned, and the country that perpetrated it, will be liable for violating the treaty of accession, which it also co-signed, and be subject to punitive measures which may include expulsion.

Which begs the question. Will all Cypriots feel more secure as an EU member state, or not?

Your arguments are very shaky, and without logic, and both of you know this.

[DT.]

Another logical fantasy from DT. He is proving to be a master at deception but a straw man has short legs. Viewpoint said that he would quite happily live in a unitary Cyprus provided the mistrust between the two communities is replaced by good will and mutual respect. How can he not commend this approach? Probably DT thinks that this game is like a football match and in this case I can excuse his fallacy. Mistrust has been built over many decades and sealed with murder, summary executions and all sort of illegalities. It cannot be wiped out with the stroke of a pen. A transitional period is needed, after all, 37 years have already gone by since 1974. The behaviour of the two communities during the transition period will decide if we deserve a unitary Cyprus.

Those whom I asked to show me a way forward and the means to achieve their aspiration, could only come out with the following "Keep things as they are and wait on the sidelines". This is the best they can do. Can somebody inform them that things never stay as they are and that each day that passes by consolidates the partition of Cyprus? These people surely understand this simple truth, and I can only assume that in fact they prefer partition but do not have the decency to say it, loud and clear.

My mistake, how could I have gotten VP so wrong. He's been for a united Cyprus all this time and no one here's realised it. I remember even your friend Bir was his sworn enemy at some point before the "switch". Perhaps Bir was also mislead when he was calling him a partitionist.

Just to be clear I also want a BBF provided it is not racist, allows for the return of all refugees and leaves no leverage for Turkey to invade again under a supposed new Treaty of Guarantee. Will you commend me as well for acting like VP and adding my caveats? Have you asked VP how he proposes his caveats to a united Cyprus be satisfied?

And one more thing, where do you stand on your friend VP's statement regarding living in a Greek language free country? I can dig his comment up if you like? I believe it went something like " I don't want my children growing up in a country where Greek is spoken."

Once again, I must have misunderstood him all along. I'm not a master of deception at all Banana, I just have an annoyingly good memory.