Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Bir they will continue to play the democracy, freedom and human rights card for all its worth because they have nothing else to offer they conveniently forget and want us to that they will be in charge to do as they wish. Democracy and human rights in the wrong hands is a catastrophe for minorities and the GCs are the wrong hands. If we are to unite we need checks and balances, guarantee and assurances that neither side will step over the line, exploit, manipulate or dominate the other side.

In Cyprus we have many other minorities and we have problems with none of them. Therefore you are the problematic ones, not us. The wrong hands are the Turks. Just look at what they do to their minorities in Turkey. In fact many members of our Armenian Cypriot minority are people who fled from Turkey to save themselves from the genocide. In Cyprus they are equal Cypriot citizens.

What are their percentages 1% 2% 3% does make much difference, we have a recent bad past and GCs are a revenge seeking people therefore unlike the other very small minorities who sided with GCs there is no trust between our two communities, you have to be made to administer democracy and human rights fairly and just, you cannot be give a free hand as you are not trusted due to your past record when dealing with TCs, if it should be proven that you have breached the rules you should pay a heavy price, this would be a very strong deterrent.

That their percentages are small means that they are more venerable, and still they are respected. The recent bad past is due to you not us. If you have acted correctly as all other minorities did then we wouldn't have any problems with you today as we don't have with any of the others. We are very forgiving people and we do not seek revenge for past events (otherwise we would have eliminated the Latin minority long time ago).

Beyond that, if you want to say you do not trust us as an excuse to reject democracy and human rights then fine. That means no agreed solution as we will obviously not accept to give up democracy and human rights.

[Piratis]

Bir they will continue to play the democracy, freedom and human rights card for all its worth because they have nothing else to offer...

Human rights, democracy, freedom, EU citizenship plus a share of the island's potential oil and gas riches! Now you tell me that the average TC is going to prefer more misery, more unemployment, more isolation, more settlers and more of Turkey's false promises. Come off it, VP! Just how dumb do you think your fellow citizens are?

Administered by whom?

By the goverment which will be elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

80% of which conveniently for you are GCs...we dont stand a chance.

You don't stand a chance for what?

[Viewpoint]

Bir they will continue to play the democracy, freedom and human rights card for all its worth because they have nothing else to offer they conveniently forget and want us to that they will be in charge to do as they wish. Democracy and human rights in the wrong hands is a catastrophe for minorities and the GCs are the wrong hands. If we are to unite we need checks and balances, guarantee and assurances that neither side will step over the line, exploit, manipulate or dominate the other side.

In Cyprus we have many other minorities and we have problems with none of them. Therefore you are the problematic ones, not us. The wrong hands are the Turks. Just look at what they do to their minorities in Turkey. In fact many members of our Armenian Cypriot minority are people who fled from Turkey to save themselves from the genocide. In Cyprus they are equal Cypriot citizens.

What are their percentages 1% 2% 3% does make much difference, we have a recent bad past and GCs are a revenge seeking people therefore unlike the other very small minorities who sided with GCs there is no trust between our two communities, you have to be made to administer democracy and human rights fairly and just, you cannot be give a free hand as you are not trusted due to your past record when dealing with TCs, if it should be proven that you have breached the rules you should pay a heavy price, this would be a very strong deterrent.

That their percentages are small means that they are more venerable, and still they are respected. The recent bad past is due to you not us. If you have acted correctly as all other minorities did then we wouldn't have any problems with you today as we don't have with any of the others. We are very forgiving people and we do not seek revenge for past events (otherwise we would have eliminated the Latin minority long time ago).

Beyond that, if you want to say you do not trust us as an excuse to reject democracy and human rights then fine. That means no agreed solution as we will obviously not accept to give up democracy and human rights.

We will never accept purely GC administered democracy and human rights, there has to be guarantees checks and balances to ensure we are included and no one moves out of line trying to manipulate they system to their advanatge, if any attempt to do is made then the penalty should very high.

[Viewpoint]

Administered by whom?

By the goverment which will be elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

80% of which conveniently for you are GCs...we dont stand a chance.

You don't stand a chance for what?

Having an effective say in our country or our future.

[Piratis]

Administered by whom?

By the goverment which will be elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

80% of which conveniently for you are GCs...we dont stand a chance.

You don't stand a chance for what?

Having an effective say in our country or our future.

Effective say means what for you? 50% power share?

[BirKibrisli]

Don't be fooled by their democratic principles and human rights arguments...Makarios and Co wanted things their way or the highway back in the 50s and 60s...Those days it was Enosis or bust...These days it is democratic principle, the EU acquis or bust,,,It might be more palatable for some of us,but it cuts no ice with most people living in the trnc,which these days include at least 2 generations of settlers,and those of mixed (settler/TC) background...
I am not buying the argument that in a solution other than what the GCs want cyprus would be handed over to Turkey on a plate..that is pure fantasy and the scare card with which the ROC government keep their people in check...The mentality is still the same.They think they can outmaneuver Turkey and the TCs on international stage with their new found EU weapon...they think they can win this battle with democratic principles and human right arguments,as long as people turn a blind eye to the past events,which they present 100% biased in their own way...But they have met their match with Erdogan and company,who are using the Cyprus card to buy time and advance their own internal and external aspirations...i have little doubt that if Turkey wanted a solution they can have one tomorrow...They do not want one,and the GCs are playing into their hands by being so obstinate and picky about a solution...

Firstly, democracy and human rights are not a cover for an ulterior motive. This is paranoid nonsense. Democracy and human rights are what would make any solution sustainable. As an EU member, the RoC is obliged to implement the EU acquis which guarantees the rights of all EU citizens. Neither TCs or GCs can opt out of the legal protection that EU law provides. Human rights and legal protection are not a "weapon" against the TCs. Human rights are not a trick foisted upon the people to oppress them! Is this what Turkey is telling TCs these days to keep them in line? Give me strength!

As for Turkey's game of playing for time. Turkey has its own problems as a result of the occupation: financial. legal, strategic, diplomatic. Wiser heads will need to impress upon Erdogan the consequences of keeping the occupation going. Sustaining such a large military occupation abroad doesn't come without its headaches for Turkey. Even Erdogan surely understands this!

GCs are not after an ideal solution. We accept we're not got going to get all we want. But we won't settle for a bad solution that is worse than what we have now. And yes there is such a thing as a bad solution being worse than no solution. The Annan Plan was exactly that. So stop trying to impress upon us that we need to accept a bad solution! And offer us a solution that satisfies our needs for justice, fairness and a future without foreign interference on our island.

You don't get it,Hermes...Moral and intellectual arguments cannot overcome people's deep suspicions and fears....
When a whole community is collectively traumatised for decades of conflict,insecurity,and death threats,they want more than what your EU laws or democratic principles can give them on paper...They want to make sure their "enemy" has changed with time,and he is no longer a threat he was...With certain posters here,some of us feel the danger is still very much present...so,march on,use the international stage to extract intellectual gains over Turkey or the TCs...If you cannot reach their hearts and make them feel secure,you will be wasting your time...Just like during the past 40 odd years...

[Viewpoint]

Administered by whom?

By the goverment which will be elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

80% of which conveniently for you are GCs...we dont stand a chance.

You don't stand a chance for what?

Having an effective say in our country or our future.

Effective say means what for you? 50% power share?

As long as we have an effective say the % is not important, it could be 80 GC MPs and 20 TC MPs but to pass a bill you will need 50% of each set of vote eg 40 GC and 10 TC.

[BirKibrisli]

I agree that a bad solution is not desirable,but it is better than no solution at all

Really? So why don't you accept the solution as we want it then? Probably what you wanted to say is: "a bad solution FOR GCs is better FOR TCs than no solution at all"

So Bir, aren't you picky about a solution? In you case, it is not "your way or the highway"?

You are just as stubborn as we are. The difference being that we are stubborn insisting on democracy, freedom and human rights, while you are stubborn rejecting everything that exists in any other successful state, insisting instead on things such as human rights violations, racist discriminations, forced segregation and an undemocratic system.

So sorry, but we are not going to accept your way. We rather have our way, which is the way of all normal democratic countries, in the free 2/3rds of Cyprus, rather than accept your way and not only officially partition Cyprus but also turn the whole island into some racist, undemocratic puppet state of Turkey.

You are like a child who lives in his own dream world,and thinks that if he wishes long enough and hard enough,the world will change to one he think is the ideal...Real life is somewhat different...These are people who already believe there is no Cyprus problem,it was solved in 1974...They are quite happy to let life go on as is,knowing well that time will only make the status quo more and more permanent,more and more inevitable...If you want to change things you have to do something different,offer something more than intellectual and moral arguments...But first you must accept your role in our sorry history...If you insist on saying,Well, everything started with the Ottoman invasion in 1571,nobody asked you to come here,and you have to do what we want because now democracy and human rights are the order of the day,you will not get anywhere...Turkey and the TCs have something you want: 37% of Cyprus...If you want to get some of it or all of it back you must be flexible not stubborn,reassuring not threatening,good-willed not revenge seeking...You must show the TCs you've learnt something from the past 50 years...And you are prepared to make sacrifices to have peace and stability...Start thinking in terms of carrots not sticks...

[Piratis]

Administered by whom?

By the goverment which will be elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

80% of which conveniently for you are GCs...we dont stand a chance.

You don't stand a chance for what?

Having an effective say in our country or our future.

Effective say means what for you? 50% power share?

As long as we have an effective say the % is not important, it could be 80 GC MPs and 20 TC MPs but to pass a bill you will need 50% of each set of vote eg 40 GC and 10 TC.

So what you are asking is 50%-50% power share which is not acceptable.

[Viewpoint]

No Solution then.