Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cap]

Greek-Turkish Friendship is on Facebook

Yes, yes, yes, halil, harpy ... we get it! We are ALL friends NOW because you have taken nearly half our country and are happy. Yes, we MUST all be happy now! The Turks have what they always wanted!!!!

Wrong, they want the rest, and they want the disputed coastal areas of Greece too.
Since they'll be viewed as barbarians by the civilized world if they take it by force, they're depending on colonization and dirty politics to get the job done.

Forget the foreign born 'Oxford' educated, Western cultured 'nice T**ks' who Bananiot is smitten with.
Its the terrorists in power with their expansionist and imperialistic agendas we've got to worry about.

[Nikitas]

Today's racist outburst by Gul in London should be a reminder to Bananiot and all others who we are dealing with.

We were honored by Gul with the title of "half a state" and the rest of the EU as the "wretched union". This naturally told to Turkish journalists, the non Turks were shown the polite, "civilised" face of Turkey.

This bullshit game of us always having to be the pragmatists who must accept fate etc has gotten stale.

[Viewpoint]

Today's racist outburst by Gul in London should be a reminder to Bananiot and all others who we are dealing with.

We were honored by Gul with the title of "half a state" and the rest of the EU as the "wretched union". This naturally told to Turkish journalists, the non Turks were shown the polite, "civilised" face of Turkey.

This bullshit game of us always having to be the pragmatists who must accept fate etc has gotten stale.

Hello Niki, did something happen we do not know of??? are you not a divided island? are you not a divided island in Europe??? isnt the EU in economic turmoil??? arent you taking over as head of the EU in 2012???? where is he wrong???

[Hermes]

Today's racist outburst by Gul in London should be a reminder to Bananiot and all others who we are dealing with.

We were honored by Gul with the title of "half a state" and the rest of the EU as the "wretched union". This naturally told to Turkish journalists, the non Turks were shown the polite, "civilised" face of Turkey.

This bullshit game of us always having to be the pragmatists who must accept fate etc has gotten stale.

Hello Niki, did something happen we do not know of??? are you not a divided island? are you not a divided island in Europe??? isnt the EU in economic turmoil??? arent you taking over as head of the EU in 2012???? where is he wrong???

Firstly, Cyprus entered as a full member of the European Union. That includes the areas under Turkish occupation. The fact that northern Cyprus is under occupation does not make it less a member of the EU. In fact, the terms of the EU Presidency allow all members - large or small - occupied or not - to take their turn under equal terms. A democratic concession which Gul and Turkey appear to have problems comprehending. However, if Gul is keen to see a united Cyprus presiding over the EU in 2012 then he is in a good position to campaign for it. I look forward to it.

Secondly, despite the European Union's banking crisis It is still the richest economic bloc in the world. It can afford to find a way out of its current difficulties if it had the political will. It is a crisis of poor leadership and poor policies as much as it is an economic crisis. In other words, there is nothing inevitable about a European decline. The EU is stuck in a spiral of poor decision-making and bad economic judgments. Bad policies can be corrected. I think Europe will fall further before it comes to its senses. But the average European has a long way to fall before he or she approaches the living standards of those living in China, India or Turkey.

Gul's remarks reveal a rather foolish and bitter man hitting out at a club that he desperately wants to be a member of but who won't have him. Even little Cyprus is a member of the EU club while supposedly large and powerful Turkey cannot get a whiff of an entry. Despite the EU's problems do you see a sudden rush to the exit doors? Not likely. The talk is of closer, deeper union. Apparently, it is still better to be a member of the EU club than stuck on the outside with the riff-raff...

[Viewpoint]

Hermes time you came back down to earth;

Firstly, Cyprus entered as a full member of the European Union. That includes the areas under Turkish occupation. The fact that northern Cyprus is under occupation does not make it less a member of the EU. In fact, the terms of the EU Presidency allow all members - large or small - to take a turn under equal terms. A democratic concession which Gul and Turkey appear to have problems comprehending. Alternatively, if Gul wants to see a united Cyprus in the EU then he is in a good position to campaign for it. I look forward to it.

Obviously you are unable to answer this so you tried to bullshit your way through......the bottom line is Cyprus is physically divided into 2, thats why you are attending talks with the other side to try and reunite it...am I right so far? a Yes or No will do.

Secondly, the European Union's banking crisis does not mean the EU is suddenly "miserable". It is still the richest economic bloc in the world. It can afford to pay for this crisis easily if it had the political will. It is a crisis of poor leadership as much as it is a crisis of financial mismanagement. If you think the EU is suddenly in a downward spiral it has a long way to fall before it reaches the living standards of China, India or even Turkey. It doesn't reflect well on Gul if he appears to find the EU's travails a matter of derision. It says much about the petty, shoddy nature of the man.

So what you are saying is that firstly the economic deception mismanagement and crisis of countries such as Greece Spain Ireland Portugal Italy have and will not have any impact on the EU economy???? One simple question why doesnt the EU go right ahead and bail Greece out 100%....your answer will expose your credibility.

Gul's remarks reveal a rather foolish and bitter man hitting out at a club that he desperately wants to be a member of but who won't have him. Even little Cyprus is a member of the EU club while supposedly large and powerful Turkey cannot get a whiff of an entry. Despite the EU's problems do you see a sudden rush to the exit doors? Not likely. The talk is of closer, deeper union. Apparently, it is still better to be a member of the EU club than stuck on the outside with the riff-raff...

South Cyprus is an easily swallowed minnow in comparison to the economy and population of Turkey, you may have forgotten but I have always said Turkey is not an EU nation and should never enter the EU, all its has to do is adopt some of its principles in reforming certain areas through out the country. The aging EU does not have the capacity nor the will to swallow Turkey, she will cause her great indigestion and even a heart attack. Turkey is playing the EU for all its worth, she has no real intention of entering but has to be seen to be playing lip service to certain issues so that the EU flame is not put out which will in time effect her economy negatively.

[Hermes]

Obviously you are unable to answer this so you tried to bullshit your way through......the bottom line is Cyprus is physically divided into 2, thats why you are attending talks with the other side to try and reunite it...am I right so far? a Yes or No will do.

Of course Cyprus is divided!! But you miss the point. The occupation of Cyprus makes no difference to the ROC's ability to assume the EU Presidency. It takes on the Presidency as a full-member of the EU. Like any other member. Much to Turkey's evident irritation the occupation and division of the island does not prevent the ROC from fulfilling its obligations as a member of the EU. Isn't that what Turkey finds difficult to accept?

So what you are saying is that firstly the economic deception mismanagement and crisis of countries such as Greece Spain Ireland Portugal Italy have and will not have any impact on the EU economy???? One simple question why doesnt the EU go right ahead and bail Greece out 100%....your answer will expose your credibility.

I'm not saying that at all! The economic crisis in the periphery countries is one of structural imbalance vis a vis the surplus nations. Living standards will be affected in all countries if Italy, Spain and Greece are in recession. Who do you think German companies are going to sell their goods to?

Once the message gets home to the northern Europeans that this crisis is also their responsibility then only through collective action and policies of regeneration will Europe get out of its current low levels of growth.

As for Greece's bail-out, you have to remind yourself that the bailout to Greece is largely to pay Greece's debtors - the European banks who face insolvency. It isn't in Greece's interests to have the EU continually support the Greek economy. Greece will need to generate its own revenues and growth. This means that the surpluses of the northern countries will need to be re-invested in the deficit economies so that we don't get these big imbalances which are the cause of the current problems.

Turkey is playing the EU for all its worth, she has no real intention of entering but has to be seen to be playing lip service to certain issues so that the EU flame is not put out which will in time effect her economy negatively.

I agree with you to a point. But the game cannot go on for ever and Turkey will have to accept fairly soon that it won't ever be a member of the EU - with the economic, diplomatic and strategic losses that will go with it. Turkey will have to accept that its EU accession has failed and the project of a "European" destiny for Turkey is finished. Instead of the largest country in the EU, with the prestige and influence that brings, Turkey will take its place outside the EU bloc alongside Syria, Iran, Iraq. Not quite the vision Turkey had for itself. And the EU will breathe a huge sigh of relief as well...

[Viewpoint]

You will never admit it but you have just in a roundabout way proved my point by saying the same as Gül that Cyprus a divided island is taking the presidency of an economically troubled union using the word "miserable" to describe what he was trying to explain to the Brits how he perceived developments in the EUs stance towards Turkey .....I would have used the word hypocrites to describe the situation but each to their own.

[Hermes]

You will never admit it but you have just in a roundabout way proved my point by saying the same as Gül that Cyprus a divided island is taking the presidency of an economically troubled union using the word "miserable" to describe what he was trying to explain to the Brits how he perceived developments in the EUs stance towards Turkey .....I would have used the word hypocrites to describe the situation but each to their own.

The occupation of Cyprus makes no difference to Cyprus's ability or justification in assuming the EU Presidency. In that sense, Gul's remark is irrelevant. Divided Cyprus is an EU member. Soon to be President of the EU. By right. Not a bad achievement for a small, divided island! Supposedly powerful Turkey can do nothing about it. Cyprus is a full and equal member of the EU. Turkey is an outsider looking in. The EU is not so miserable that Turkey would desperately like to join this exclusive club. Turkey's unfitness for membership and European scepticism of Turkey's credentials have shut the door in Turkey's face. As a result, Turkey has resorted to pathetic name calling - the typical reaction of a bitter and spurned suitor.

[Kikapu]

I picked out the main points from the interview with the EU Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht, to the questions put to him regarding Turkey.

EU-Turkey accesion talks stopped due to political reasons, says EU official

Although Turkey has made major progress in growth, its GDP per capita is still lower than the smallest EU member state, says EU Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht, adding that the reason that accession talks stopped are political.

Why remember Turkey now?

You know that there are political problems with respect to membership talks. It would be foolish to deny them. But on the other hand we have a very deep economic relationship between the EU and Turkey. The European Union is Turkey’s first market, almost 50 percent of its exports … In terms of external trade for Turkey, Europe is half of the world.

Positive feeling in Turkish public opinion is lost. How will you fill in the positive agenda?

Turkey is focusing on Europe in a negative way. The whole idea that your economy should look more to the neighborhood and less to Europe is not right either. That is not how the business community is feeling. I understand that the neighborhood is important for you, but that is not the way to move up the value chain. If you really would like to move up the value chain, you can do it with Europe not with your neighborhood.

Is there counter frustration from the EU side that Turkish frustration is going too far?

There is no real future for your economy without Europe. On the other hand, Turkey is an important gate for us for first of all East and also for the wider neighborhood. On one hand one could say that in history, time and tide wait for no man. It is going for its course. On the other hand you can only do your cause in politics when the time has come. Having lost this window of opportunity to make a decisively forward, speedy negotiations for accession, now the winds of politics are less positive.

Europe struggling with economy will accept Turkey with open arms. Misperception?

Some like to speak about Europe as if we are in shambles. A little bit exaggerated. We are the biggest economy in the world, 17 trillion euros of European products. We have slow growth. We probably accumulated too much debt. But we are not the only ones. In fact is there are not many countries who are not indebted. You are slightly indebted, less the better. Excellent. We are talking about an economy that is leading in research and development. There is an over reaction from the Turkish side. I sometimes have the feeling that you feel that because of the debt crisis all our companies, industries, banks, service providers do not exist anymore. It is like a moon landscape! We are not out of business. We will recover.

Economy not a short cut to membership?

The reason that accession talks stopped are political. History will judge who is right and who is wrong. I have my personal opinion. If we were to conclude accession negotiations obviously, there would still be a lot economic steps you should take. Although you have made major progress in growth, your GDP per capita is still lower than the smallest member state. You should all see these in a little bit of perspective. So no, it is not a short cut. The reasons why Turkey becoming a member of the EU makes sense from an economic point of view, from a political point of view…they remain.

We know the views of European leaders about Turkish accession. What about the mood inside the EU Commission?

The commission has always been in favor of the accession negotiations and actual accession of Turkey. But the commission is a college of 27. Some are more critical than others. That is one of the big advantages of the EU Commission. I believe that is the beauty of it as well. You can have majority or minority. Governments should have unity. When there is no consensus the governments are doomed to resign sooner or later. In the commission, it happens frequently that there is a majority in favor and there is a minority who is against. But there is still a comfortable majority inside the EU Commission who are in favor of Turkey’s accession.

What are the major areas where cooperation can be strengthened?

The Customs Union is incomplete. It only refers to goods, it does not refer to services, procurements or agricultural products. I think it would be a good idea to enlarge the Customs Union. It makes sense because we are also in the process of completing FTAs with our Eastern neighbors. This will create a new environment also for you. It makes a lot of sense to engage in services, to complete for example the Customs Union. If I were an exporter and 50 percent of my products went to a region I would be very pleased to have a customs union with them. Turkey is the first beneficiary of this. Turkish businessmen are very smart. So they would never do that.

Membership 2014…?

It is a political debate. The mood has to change before there are new prospects. On the other hand, I believe we should continue opening chapters, and if agreed also close them. Obviously there is no unanimity on this at this point in time. Chapters are to be opened and closed unanimously, not with majority. This is the rule. The enlargement is the issue that is stirred by the member states. Even if the political climate was more propitious, 2014 would not be a realistic date, even then. Experience teaches us that an accession process takes about 10 years. That is the aggregate. On top of that Turkey is a big country, it is also a county that has some work to do with respect to human rights. Even if the political drive were there it would be a complicated process. The idea that if there were not political problems we could become a member by 2014…no!

Greek Cyprus presidency?

Cyprus becomes president because this is in our rules. It is a rotating presidency. This is not something negotiable. On the other hand the rotating presidency is no longer impacting the functions of the foreign affairs council. A permanent chairmanship by Lady Ashton. There is no reason this would happen. This is the normal functioning of the EU and the world will continue to turn during those six months.

If Turkey suspends ties unilaterally, is it easy to come back to the process?

Let’s first see what your country will do.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php? ... 2011-11-20

[BirKibrisli]

Greek-Turkish Friendship is on Facebook

Yes, yes, yes, halil, harpy ... we get it! We are ALL friends NOW because you have taken nearly half our country and are happy. Yes, we MUST all be happy now! The Turks have what they always wanted!!!!

If Halil,Turkey and the TCs have taken nearly half your country that is because YOU tried to take ALL of theirs first....
Those who live by the sword....you know the rest....