Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

1. Nonsensical terminology:

The labels “Hellenic”, “Hellenization”, and even “Greece” are contemporary terms so you cannot apply them to a people from 3,000 years ago. It makes as much sense as something like the “Nazification of Prussia” when everyone knows that Nazism is a political ideology invented many decades after the cessation of a state called Prussia!

So, whatever it is you are claiming to have happened on Cyprus at around 1200BC (?) you’ll have to define it using terms of that time that make sense. In other words, what kind of “?-ization” was this if we are to evaluate this thesis?

The terms Hellen and even Greek are not contemporary at all, they have both been used for 1000s of years. But you are right that the terms did not exist in 1200BC, and that is because Hellenism was not something that was developed somewhere else and was later brought to Cyprus, but something that evolved in what came to be the Greek mainland and Greek islands (which includes Cyprus). Cyprus therefore was not merely a destination of an already created Greek civilization, but one of the origins of this civilization.

Also, do not forget that the terms Cyprus and Cypriot did not exist in 1200BC either. There was no some unified Cypriot country, but instead a few separate settlements. The concept of a "country" did not exist back then.

2. Claims of unnatural human behavior:

Nobody in the history of mankind has managed to land on foreign soil and peacefully convince the locals/natives to abandon their ways and adopt a new introduced culture! The world simply does NOT work like that! Not even “gradually”, in fact the natives will change YOU much sooner than your imaginary divine patience will change them!

Unless there’s an invasion/occupation, all foreigners are quickly absorbed into the system if they are to survive. The locals/natives do not need the foreigners for food and shelter; it’s the other way round!

Today the population of the world is 7 Billion people. In 1200BC the population of the world was less than 50 million, that is 140 times less than today. So if today the population of Cyprus is 1 million, in 1200BC it would have been about 7000 people.

These 7000 people did not own the whole island. As I said the concept of a country did no exist back then. They just had a few separate settlements in some parts of the island. It was a village of say 1000-2000 people with some farm land around the village. The rest was forests and uninhabited land. There were no roads and it would take days to get from one village to another. When the Mycenaeans came they simply founded their new cities on some of this uninhabited land and since they founded more cities than what already existed they became the majority of the population.

It is like saying that if you go and settle in one part of Antarctica (which is mostly uninhabited) and if I then go and settle in another part far from yours I would be a foreigner on your land. Today you can get from one end of Antarctica to the other faster than you could get from one end of Cyprus to the other in 1200BC.

[Piratis]

I would like to point out the ancient Anatolians had civilisations of their own, which long predated anything remotely Greek

Did anybody here claimed that the Greeks had the very first civilization on earth? We are talking about the first European civilization, not the first civilization in the world.

Also, I am not sure which exactly are the Anatolian civilizations you are referring to (Hittites, Babylonians, Egyptians?), but certainly they were not the Turks. So I really don't understand what is the point you are trying to make.

[halil]

Poor Pirates, sees himself lion front of the mirror.........Yes i am proud with my Turkish Cypriot ID....not with Greek or Turkish ID..........Cyprus is my motherland .... I don't care about Greeks or Turks from rest of the world..........

they might intend the democracy but they never found for themself ..............

[Bananiot]

Bill, I am sure you understand much more than you pretend to understand but here you are, I will try to diffuse your objection to what looks like a rubbish thread title. I remember in the old days, when someone or something arrived on time, we used to say "english timing" meaning that only the English kept to their word. Those were the times when we only knew the English way of life. Then, in later times, we got to know the rest of civilised Europe and we were totally impressed by the way things got done in the developed European countries. Thus, when something actually was done in time or worked well, we coined another phrase to express our admiration. "European" we exclaimed.

Therefore, if a country in Europe is characterised by shortcomings, such as nepotism, corruption, pursuing irrational policies etc, then you have a country which lacks in European mentality, as defined above. Of course Greece has many shortcomings and these can be explained historically, most of the times. By pointing out these shortcomings you help to tackle them and eradicate them. This is what people who really love Greece do, and as I wrote earlier, Vasilis Rafalides, was one such person who proved it in many other ways too.

[halil]

Bill, I am sure you understand much more than you pretend to understand but here you are, I will try to diffuse your objection to what looks like a rubbish thread title. I remember in the old days, when someone or something arrived on time, we used to say "english timing" meaning that only the English kept to their word. Those were the times when we only knew the English way of life. Then, in later times, we got to know the rest of civilised Europe and we were totally impressed by the way things got done in the developed European countries. Thus, when something actually was done in time or worked well, we coined another phrase to express our admiration. "European" we exclaimed.

Therefore, if a country in Europe is characterised by shortcomings, such as nepotism, corruption, pursuing irrational policies etc, then you have a country which lacks in European mentality, as defined above. Of course Greece has many shortcomings and these can be explained historically, most of the times. By pointing out these shortcomings you help to tackle them and eradicate them. This is what people who really love Greece do, and as I wrote earlier, Vasilis Rafalides, was one such person who proved it in many other ways too.

Many times i heard from the Turkish people from Turkey saying us .....u are more civilise than us because u grew up with British Systems ....but i am afraid we lost all in these present days.....we all got bad habits of Greeks and Turks....

[Bananiot]

There is no doubt about this Halil.

[GreekIslandGirl]

All eyes are turned on Greece for another definition of Europe and Democracy.

Why?

Because the Brits, French, Germans, even the Yanks, took the originals and redefined them - creating unregulated Capitalism. Now they stumble having mucked-up the blueprints.

- Once again they are right to look to Greece for the new solution. The foundation of Europe and Democracy will re-point the way ...

[halil]

A research was carried out by KADEM in collaboration with the Centre for the Study of Childhood and Adolescence which looked at the identity and identification of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot children.The research was supported by the Bi-communal Development Programme, which is funded by USAID and UNDP and is executed by UNOPS, and results of the study in the Turkish Cypriot community clearly show that Turkish Cypriot children (ages ranging from 10-13) have an awareness of identity. All the children in this age-range identify with Turkish Cypriotness and feel a need to highlight differences between themselves and others. However, the results of the study clearly show that this awareness is not only based on the perceptual process of observation, but also on the cognitive processes of generalisations and categorisations. These will be discussed with some statistical details in the rest of the article.

rest can be read below link.
http://www.dart.com.cy/CSCA/unops/files ... tative.pdf

[halil]

below reports clearly says a lot ...........a lot saying future of the Cyprus too.........

SMALL IMAGINATIONS: GREEK CYPRIOT CHILDREN'S CONSTRUCTIONS OF "THE TURK"
by Spyros Spyrou
Cyprus College, Nicosia, Cyprus


http://www.epic.ac.uk/documents/ICSpyrou.pdf

[Sotos]

Bill, I am sure you understand much more than you pretend to understand but here you are, I will try to diffuse your objection to what looks like a rubbish thread title. I remember in the old days, when someone or something arrived on time, we used to say "english timing" meaning that only the English kept to their word. Those were the times when we only knew the English way of life. Then, in later times, we got to know the rest of civilised Europe and we were totally impressed by the way things got done in the developed European countries. Thus, when something actually was done in time or worked well, we coined another phrase to express our admiration. "European" we exclaimed.

Therefore, if a country in Europe is characterised by shortcomings, such as nepotism, corruption, pursuing irrational policies etc, then you have a country which lacks in European mentality, as defined above. Of course Greece has many shortcomings and these can be explained historically, most of the times. By pointing out these shortcomings you help to tackle them and eradicate them. This is what people who really love Greece do, and as I wrote earlier, Vasilis Rafalides, was one such person who proved it in many other ways too.

Many times i heard from the Turkish people from Turkey saying us .....u are more civilise than us because u grew up with British Systems ....but i am afraid we lost all in these present days.....we all got bad habits of Greeks and Turks....

Of course the British System is better than Ottoman or Turkish system! Our mistake was that after independence we didn't scrap everything Ottoman and Turkish. We should just unlearn everything we learned during Ottoman rule and start fresh with our Greek roots as the basis. Like they did in Western Europe! Even if we remained under Venetians we would be much better off. The Turks really screwed Cyprus up!