Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Comprade, where are we going? This was the question some TC's asked Christofias on June 6, during a ceremony to honour Yasar Ersoi, at the Conference Centre. This is what Christofias said, according to the TC's:

He does not listen to us. He does not take us into account, as though we do not exist.

Of course, he was talking about Papadopoulos, who later on rediculed Chrisofias for suggesting a social meeting between Papadopoulos and Talat.

You see, Birkibrisli, Papadopoulos won't even meet with the progressive TC's for a drink, let alone discuss solution.

[cypezokyli]

Birkibrisli dont take him seriously

and above all, dont give up on us.

dont be afraid of these guys. they are usually brave when the enemy is already gone.

and even if we get afraid above all we should not let them win or spread the hate once again.

and as you can see, despite the fact that we disagree and shout in this forum gc and tc, or gc between us it is only a couple of people who mentioned war.

i strongly believe that we grew up in this country, at least when it comes to war.

[Viewpoint]

To be honest I am a bit shocked to see that after all the pain and suffering and human rights infringements we went through in the last 50 years in Cyprus (thanks to the power games played by the imperialist powers of this world) someone like Wake up can still think peace can be achieved by violent means.Do you think Wake up is for real or is he just pulling our leg?I am not sure how to respond to this.My gutfeeling is to ignore him,but if he is for real,he won't go away will he?
Wake up,as a TC originally from the South,who has lived in exile for over 30 years,all I can say to you is if you are living in Cyprus please know that you are luckier than 100s of thousands of us Cypriots forced out of our homeland because we didn't know how to live as Cypriots without our nationalistic baggages.We were fooled into hating each other,to achieve the aims of the big powers (Turkey and Greece included).It was called "divide and rule",and it looks as if it is still alive and well.If you are a real patriot (one who puts his country's interests above all else)you must see that waging war will only lead to more tragedy and suffering,and will not help heal the wounds of history.The way to peace and unification in Cyprus goes through promoting understanding and respect and eventually mutual acceptance between GCs and TCs.If and when we can unite in a peaceful plan to promote Cyprus as a homeland for all Cypriots and those others who want to live with us in freedom and equality,only then will we have a chance of convincing all foreign powers to leave us alone to get on with our lives as Cypriots. Ideas like yours scare me to death,because they arise from an animalistic wish for revenge and retribution. If we can't rise above this we are doomed,we do not deserve to be masters of our own fate,let alone our own country.

Thank you for your uptopian input but any ideas how we get there with a potential partner that does not want to be a partner and wants to reduce you to the level of apprentice.

[Piratis]

Thank you for your uptopian input but any ideas how we get there with a potential partner that does not want to be a partner and wants to reduce you to the level of apprentice.

We don't want to reduce anybody. Birkibrisli and all other TCs can be equal Cyprus citizens with their human and community rights 100% respected in a united Cyprus part of EU.

Of course what you (= Viewpoint and the likes) want is to keep what you stole from us, and you want for each one of you 4.5 more voting power than for each one of us. So I can understand how democracy and human rights can be considered as a reduction by you since by violating these universal principles you can gain a lot more on our expense.

[BirKibrisli]

Viewpoint,i know my ideas are utopian to you,but to the rest of the world they come under common human decency.I cannot have peace if it is built on other people's misery.I don't want to live in a state built on stolen land,guarded by 40,000 troops.I don't want to live in a pretend land,where we pretend we are masters of our own destiny,while we are run like sheep from Turkey.Peace can only be built on TRUTH and Justice,more utopian notions for you I guess.Historical fact: in Cyprus Tcs are a minority,a sizeable minority.Why can't we accept that,take off our nationalistic cape,and learn to live like Cypriots with our GC brothers and sisters.We might even learn to like them or love them one day,and forget that we were the leftovers from an imperial past.You know the Turkish saying "Gunesh balchikla sivanmaz" (You cant cover the Sun with plaster!),well we can't cover the truth forever either.We have to face it,learn to live with it.If the cost is to be killed by someone like the notorios Wake up,well that will be an honourable death,though i would prefer an hounorable life.Think about it.

[Othellos]

Viewpoint,i know my ideas are utopian to you,but to the rest of the world they come under common human decency.I cannot have peace if it is built on other people's misery.

Well said, Birkibrisli!

O.

[Viewpoint]

Thank you for your uptopian input but any ideas how we get there with a potential partner that does not want to be a partner and wants to reduce you to the level of apprentice.

We don't want to reduce anybody. Birkibrisli and all other TCs can be equal Cyprus citizens with their human and community rights 100% respected in a united Cyprus part of EU.

Of course what you (= Viewpoint and the likes) want is to keep what you stole from us, and you want for each one of you 4.5 more voting power than for each one of us. So I can understand how democracy and human rights can be considered as a reduction by you since by violating these universal principles you can gain a lot more on our expense.

Will we be equal citizens in a Greek Cypriot run state? where the human rights and community rights you speak of so freely will be exercised correctly, what guarantees do we have and dont say EU they cant do anything when it comes down to resolving issues the aid and trade promised is a prime example, GCs are masters at tieing knots. Greece has many examples of human rights abuse (Thrace) against the Turkish population there, that is the European union.

As for the mental problem you have on us stealing and keeping what we say we stole, look at it this we are looking after it until we agree a final solution but of course as the years past we have to develop so therefore land will be utilized, the faster you genuine seek a solution and negotiate for property rights the soon we will return property that we are currently caretakers for.

As for voting rights you are one man one vote orientated which in an ideal situation would not be a problem but dont forget Cyprus is unique due to past history and experiencies and has prejudices and barriers that we need to overcome. The 2 community representation (partnership) solution to me appears more fair and just as it will ensure that both communities work together for the good of both communites rather than produce a GC run state in which TCs would be at their mercy. This is totally unacceptable for the majority of TCs.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint,i know my ideas are utopian to you,but to the rest of the world they come under common human decency.I cannot have peace if it is built on other people's misery.I don't want to live in a state built on stolen land,guarded by 40,000 troops.I don't want to live in a pretend land,where we pretend we are masters of our own destiny,while we are run like sheep from Turkey.Peace can only be built on TRUTH and Justice,more utopian notions for you I guess.Historical fact: in Cyprus Tcs are a minority,a sizeable minority.Why can't we accept that,take off our nationalistic cape,and learn to live like Cypriots with our GC brothers and sisters.We might even learn to like them or love them one day,and forget that we were the leftovers from an imperial past.You know the Turkish saying "Gunesh balchikla sivanmaz" (You cant cover the Sun with plaster!),well we can't cover the truth forever either.We have to face it,learn to live with it.If the cost is to be killed by someone like the notorios Wake up,well that will be an honourable death,though i would prefer an hounorable life.Think about it.

My friend although I agree with a lot of what you say, your utopia is the ultimate goal, the issues which are obsticles to reaching this dream need to be overcome. How do we propose to do this when GCs cannot even accept TCs as equals? they have this superiority complex which is inbred and that we are a minority in their country and that we should be put in our place. imo they have to learn that we are partners and should be treated accordingly. Only after this can we move forward and attempt to build trust with this factor we will get nowhere, the last 31 years is a great example of this fact.

[BirKibrisli]

Viewpoint,be gardash,what makes you think Gcs don't accept us as equals?Or do you mean they don't want to divide Cyprus into two separate states under a federal government?That is a different thing.
But do you blame them?Who wants to give up sovreignty over half or a third of their country?Would Turkey accept the political equality of the Kurds and give them their own state?Please don't tell me that's different because it is not.Kurds are a sizeable minority in Turkey as TCs are in Cyprus.Why can't we take our chance in a united Cyprus under the 1960 constitution (which was very generous to Tcs btw)?You can't be afraid of massacres like those in the past perpetrated by both communities,in this day and age under the EU banner?The 1960 constitution did not put us into our place,it gave us a very strong hand,but we failed to defend that hand.The best way to build trust is to grab the bull by the horn,and hang on for dear life.Soon we might see that we have no reason to doubt each other.Any other solution based on the might of the Turkish army will only foster resentments like those of the past 31 years.It will never bring us peace in our own country as Cypriots.If we cannot stand on our own two feet in Cyprus maybe we don't deserve to be treated as equals by anybody. Maybe everybody in the North should pack up and follow the Army to Turkey,and let those who want to live as Cypriots back into their homes.I can only repeat,we cannot build a peaceful state at other people's expence.Look at Israel.Even they seemed to be learning this lesson.When will we in Cyprus?