Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

No Sir, you are not merely making unsubstantiated assumptions and speculations, as you rightfully admitted. You are also putting ammunition into the propaganda arsenal of Denktash and his little followers towards the legitimisation of their partitionist goals.

Little Papadopoulos!

You have a good teacher, Kifeas. You and your protege do not understand Dionisios Solomos at all. He repeated that "Only truth serves the national interests" and if someone is looking for the truth, even if he makes wrong assumptions in the process, then he is a useful citizen. The accusation that your debator is putting ammunition into the propaganda arsenal of Denktash is cheap and unworthy of taking notice of, but this is everyday practice for the great ethnarch and his followers, it seems.

Although your posting is unworthy of a reply, I will only say the following just for the record. I am not the one that is against the truth. I am the one that insists for the truth and I am the one who reacts to unsubstantiated assumptions, presented more or less as facts. I did not accuse anyone. I stated the obvious, which is the loading of the opponent’s propaganda machinery with ammunition, when someone - especially when he is a GC, unintentionally reconfirms the unsubstantiated allegations of the partitionist opponent. I did not say that the particular poster is an unworthy citizen or that he is a traitor. I did not say that he intentionally said whatever he said, i.e. for the sole aim to load the opponent with ammunition for his propaganda.

[Bananiot]

In effect you are saying that cypezokyli is an ... unintentional traitor, because you think that this person is "loading the opponent’s propaganda machinery with ammunition" and the sin is made worse by the fact that he is a GC!

I despise this kind of thinking. It takes us back to the middle ages of Cypriot politics when no divergence was permitted from the official line and ideas were murdered before they could even be born, by this kind of practice.

Of course, Papadopoulos has contributed a great deal towards this kind of backtracking. He keeps accusing anyone that disagrees with him as paid traitors and the rest. His political culture is that of a barbarian and Denktash could never advance his partition ideas unless he was condoned by similar thinking politicians on the GC side. I believe Papadopoulos and Denktash are the opposite sides of the same coin. Both are striving for partition, only, one of them has been put into the dustbin of history while the other one has been taken out of the naphthalene and political isolation and is supported by the most reactionary forces in Cyprus.

It takes two to tango and, once again, Denktash by himself could have never achieve his aims, had he not been aided by people from the GC side who took an oath for enosis, at all costs.

I enjoyed reading the part where you say that the Akritas Plan was just a proposition. You take it or leave it and all is well. If I did not know better I would say that this is a naïve approach to a deadly serious problem.

[Kifeas]

In effect you are saying that cypezokyli is an ... unintentional traitor, because you think that this person is "loading the opponent’s propaganda machinery with ammunition" and the sin is made worse by the fact that he is a GC!

I despise this kind of thinking. It takes us back to the middle ages of Cypriot politics when no divergence was permitted from the official line and ideas were murdered before they could even be born, by this kind of practice.

Of course, Papadopoulos has contributed a great deal towards this kind of backtracking. He keeps accusing anyone that disagrees with him as paid traitors and the rest. His political culture is that of a barbarian and Denktash could never advance his partition ideas unless he was condoned by similar thinking politicians on the GC side. I believe Papadopoulos and Denktash are the opposite sides of the same coin. Both are striving for partition, only, one of them has been put into the dustbin of history while the other one has been taken out of the naphthalene and political isolation and is supported by the most reactionary forces in Cyprus.

It takes two to tango and, once again, Denktash by himself could have never achieve his aims, had he not been aided by people from the GC side who took an oath for enosis, at all costs.

I enjoyed reading the part where you say that the Akritas Plan was just a proposition. You take it or leave it and all is well. If I did not know better I would say that this is a naïve approach to a deadly serious problem.

Man, not only you are a liar but you are nuts too!
find me where I said that Akritas plan was a proposition!

[-mikkie2-]

Of course, Papadopoulos has contributed a great deal towards this kind of backtracking. He keeps accusing anyone that disagrees with him as paid traitors and the rest. His political culture is that of a barbarian and Denktash could never advance his partition ideas unless he was condoned by similar thinking politicians on the GC side. I believe Papadopoulos and Denktash are the opposite sides of the same coin. Both are striving for partition, only, one of them has been put into the dustbin of history while the other one has been taken out of the naphthalene and political isolation and is supported by the most reactionary forces in Cyprus.

Bananiot, you really take the biscuit!

Denktas wanted partition. Yes, true. But what does Turkey want? With the Annan plan, not only does partition become legalised (irrespective of the reasons why we have been led to it) but Turkey sees in the Annan plan a way of indirectly controlling the whole of Cyprus. Please, do not insult peoples intelligence. You bang on about people draging Cyprus back to the middle ages of political thinking, but you consistently AVOID tackling the basic fundamental problems that we face as a nation and not only that, you consistently accuse people of using the traitor label when you yourself never stop using it yourself! It is very easy to avoid answering ar tackling things when you constantly cry wolf all the time. Is this another case of two sides of the same coin perhaps?

[Bananiot]

This is what I wrote:

I enjoyed reading the part where you say that the Akritas Plan was just a proposition. You take it or leave it and all is well. If I did not know better I would say that this is a naïve approach to a deadly serious problem.

Kifeas wrote:

Man, not only you are a liar but you are nuts too!
find me where I said that Akritas plan was a proposition!

The fact that Kifeas thinks that I am a liar is well established. For him, Papadopoulos has never been a member of the military wing of EOKA (despite Papadopoulos's constant boasting for the opposite), has never given orders for the murder of leftists (despite Papadopoulos's admitting to that effect in the periodical Egertirion Salpisma, saying explicitly WE did this and WE did that), has never written the Akritas Plan (despite Papadopoulos's personal touch with the legal jargon he so much likes present everywhere in the plan), has never said that partition is the next best solution (despite both reporters present at his speach reporting the same thing), etc, etc.

Being nuts is a new theory and I admit to that. I am nuts for writing the Akritas Plan instead of the 13 points. Of course, this is a mistake and what I meant was the 13 proposalsof 1963. Kifeas said that they were mere proposals, take them or leave them, no love lost. Someone else may have said, look mate, this is a mistake, I have never said that. We have a saying in Greek "eksestin Klazomeniois asximonein" meaning, what can one expect from the man ...

[BirKibrisli]

To be honest I am a bit shocked to see that after all the pain and suffering and human rights infringements we went through in the last 50 years in Cyprus (thanks to the power games played by the imperialist powers of this world) someone like Wake up can still think peace can be achieved by violent means.Do you think Wake up is for real or is he just pulling our leg?I am not sure how to respond to this.My gutfeeling is to ignore him,but if he is for real,he won't go away will he?
Wake up,as a TC originally from the South,who has lived in exile for over 30 years,all I can say to you is if you are living in Cyprus please know that you are luckier than 100s of thousands of us Cypriots forced out of our homeland because we didn't know how to live as Cypriots without our nationalistic baggages.We were fooled into hating each other,to achieve the aims of the big powers (Turkey and Greece included).It was called "divide and rule",and it looks as if it is still alive and well.If you are a real patriot (one who puts his country's interests above all else)you must see that waging war will only lead to more tragedy and suffering,and will not help heal the wounds of history.The way to peace and unification in Cyprus goes through promoting understanding and respect and eventually mutual acceptance between GCs and TCs.If and when we can unite in a peaceful plan to promote Cyprus as a homeland for all Cypriots and those others who want to live with us in freedom and equality,only then will we have a chance of convincing all foreign powers to leave us alone to get on with our lives as Cypriots. Ideas like yours scare me to death,because they arise from an animalistic wish for revenge and retribution. If we can't rise above this we are doomed,we do not deserve to be masters of our own fate,let alone our own country.

[Kifeas]

This is what I wrote:

I enjoyed reading the part where you say that the Akritas Plan was just a proposition. You take it or leave it and all is well. If I did not know better I would say that this is a naïve approach to a deadly serious problem.

Kifeas wrote:

Man, not only you are a liar but you are nuts too!
find me where I said that Akritas plan was a proposition!

The fact that Kifeas thinks that I am a liar is well established. For him, Papadopoulos has never been a member of the military wing of EOKA (despite Papadopoulos's constant boasting for the opposite), has never given orders for the murder of leftists (despite Papadopoulos's admitting to that effect in the periodical Egertirion Salpisma, saying explicitly WE did this and WE did that), has never written the Akritas Plan (despite Papadopoulos's personal touch with the legal jargon he so much likes present everywhere in the plan), has never said that partition is the next best solution (despite both reporters present at his speach reporting the same thing), etc, etc.

Being nuts is a new theory and I admit to that. I am nuts for writing the Akritas Plan instead of the 13 points. Of course, this is a mistake and what I meant was the 13 proposalsof 1963. Kifeas said that they were mere proposals, take them or leave them, no love lost. Someone else may have said, look mate, this is a mistake, I have never said that. We have a saying in Greek "eksestin Klazomeniois asximonein" meaning, what can one expect from the man ...

Bananiot, when you start your previous posting with an obviously disrespectful addressing such as "little Papadopoullos" and then you continue along the same and then the following posting with a complete, deliberate and disrespectful twisting of all my previous arguments in relation to Cypezokylie's allegations, do not expect to receive a respectful treatment on my behalf.

Whatever you have written above are all a bunch of arbitrary and totally unsubstantiated assumptions. I do not want to waste my time anymore with these issues.

As for the Makarios 13 points, if they were not a proposal, -a stupid, premature and badly formulated one- then what have they been? An ultimatum? If he had the power to enforce them unilaterally, why would he ever needed to present them to turkey for consideration first? Why did he have to wait for the TC leadership to reply to him and /or give their consent?

[Kifeas]

To be honest I am a bit shocked to see that after all the pain and suffering and human rights infringements we went through in the last 50 years in Cyprus (thanks to the power games played by the imperialist powers of this world) someone like Wake up can still think peace can be achieved by violent means.Do you think Wake up is for real or is he just pulling our leg?I am not sure how to respond to this.My gutfeeling is to ignore him,but if he is for real,he won't go away will he?
Wake up,as a TC originally from the South,who has lived in exile for over 30 years,all I can say to you is if you are living in Cyprus please know that you are luckier than 100s of thousands of us Cypriots forced out of our homeland because we didn't know how to live as Cypriots without our nationalistic baggages.We were fooled into hating each other,to achieve the aims of the big powers (Turkey and Greece included).It was called "divide and rule",and it looks as if it is still alive and well.If you are a real patriot (one who puts his country's interests above all else)you must see that waging war will only lead to more tragedy and suffering,and will not help heal the wounds of history.The way to peace and unification in Cyprus goes through promoting understanding and respect and eventually mutual acceptance between GCs and TCs.If and when we can unite in a peaceful plan to promote Cyprus as a homeland for all Cypriots and those others who want to live with us in freedom and equality,only then will we have a chance of convincing all foreign powers to leave us alone to get on with our lives as Cypriots. Ideas like yours scare me to death,because they arise from an animalistic wish for revenge and retribution. If we can't rise above this we are doomed,we do not deserve to be masters of our own fate,let alone our own country.

Well said birkibrisli, I fully share your views and aspirations.
I believe it makes no sense replying to postings of that nature, coming from people like Wake up, Ellas h Tefra, etc. In many cases they came from one or two persons who join in with various different nicknames and with the sole aim to provoke and /or pull our leg as you rightfully assumed, and then laugh on our back for taking the seriously.

[Bananiot]

I see ... that's what got you fired up, the Little Papadopoulos tag. But this was provoked by your Little Denktash tag that proceeded but then of course you have the royal prerogative to label people.

Of course you do not want to waste your time with issues that may damage your perception of Papadopoulos, the sick Turk eater, according to one of the left's most respected leaders. This can be read by all in pages 100-101 of Ziartides's book "without fear and passion". The book was written long before Papadopoulos became President, when he was the leader of an obscure party that commanded less than 1%, thus there is no political axe here to grind. Ziartides claims that Papadopoulos was a fanatical right wing politician and a racist as far as the Turkish Cypriots are concerned. I have yet to meet a TC that disagrees with Ziartides ...

[wake up]

so wot if he is a fanatical right wingand a racist.extremeism is the solution

Edited by Admin