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GB and the Cyprus EEZ

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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby Hermes » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:42 am

bill cobbett wrote:Very nice am sure, but there remains a problem if we are to consider the CY EEZ and GB together and it's the little matter that you will all be familiar with and that is at the back end of the 2004 Annan Scam Plan there was a section that would have allowed for the first time the GB SBAs to have a large chunk of the CY EEZ.

Yet there is no ref in what Mr Hague had to say yesterday that such an outrageous claim would not be repeated in a future Ban Ki-Moon CY Settlement Plan.

Mrs Kozakou-Markoullis (bless her never the less) did not bring it up (not in public anyway) and as you can imagine it didn't occur to any of the rubbish "journalists" who were there to press Mr Hague to drop any such future claim.

Bill, am I right in thinking that Cyprus' EEZ has already been determined? Isn't that the basis of the current rounds of licensing? I'm not sure that the British bases can be utilised in this context. That sank along with the Annan Plan...
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby bill cobbett » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:07 am

Hermes wrote:
bill cobbett wrote:Very nice am sure, but there remains a problem if we are to consider the CY EEZ and GB together and it's the little matter that you will all be familiar with and that is at the back end of the 2004 Annan Scam Plan there was a section that would have allowed for the first time the GB SBAs to have a large chunk of the CY EEZ.

Yet there is no ref in what Mr Hague had to say yesterday that such an outrageous claim would not be repeated in a future Ban Ki-Moon CY Settlement Plan.

Mrs Kozakou-Markoullis (bless her never the less) did not bring it up (not in public anyway) and as you can imagine it didn't occur to any of the rubbish "journalists" who were there to press Mr Hague to drop any such future claim.

Bill, am I right in thinking that Cyprus' EEZ has already been determined? Isn't that the basis of the current rounds of licensing? I'm not sure that the British bases can be utilised in this context. That sank along with the Annan Plan...


Yes... the blocks have been marked in the southern waters, but read a couple of things that aroused suspicion a few days ago, in

1. that some blocks wouldn't be going out to tender, the three that are closest to the southern shore.

2. also there may be some legal semantics at work here cos the EEZ starts 12 miles off-shore... so it is poss for Mr Hague to respect the CY EEZ as he claimed in his speech whilst still leaving GB's options open within 12 miles from shore.
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:36 am

the British have always done what they think right for Britain - just as every other cuntry (sic) does. That is the immoral nature of Politics, International RealPolitik in particular
Britain has always been cast as the villain however as Hannay outlined in his book Britains' policy in the 1950's was one of muddle fudge and indecisivness not a cunning dark plan: as he comments, in the period from 1963 onwards, Britain was disinclined to allow themselves to be dragged in to Cyprus.

You should also read the following article bt Cypriot Academic Demtris Assos. which I think Insan previously mentioned in 2008
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Davidcarter/againstconspiracy/againstconspiracy.html in which he characterises much of British policy as as reactive to events on the ground.

As he states
COMMONLY held Greek Cypriot opinion contends the EOKA struggle failed to achieve its objective of enosis because of dark machinations. According to this view, the 'heroic' struggle of EOKA was frustrated either because of the inept handling of the Cyprus problem by the Greek government and/or Makarios or because of some international intrigue, which undermined the 'fair' demand for enosis and resulted only independence for Cyprus and not union with Greece.

These arguments are fundamentally flawed. There was no conspiracy and independence was the only logical consequence of forces set in motion in the 1950s.


His closing remarks are in my view worth repeating
Officials sanction 'conspiracies'

CONSPIRACY theories offer a way of reconciling their fervent belief in enosis as the natural course of history, but not with the reality on the ground. Therefore, enosis must have been denied them because of some dark plot.

The ideological apparatus of the 1960 Republic encouraged the proliferation of conspiracy theories as a means of deflecting attention from the flaws of the EOKA struggle and to legitimize the process of independence.

As the majority of the Greek Cypriot politicians in power in the 1960s, 1970s and beyond had been intimately involved in the struggle, it was in their interest to cultivate an uncritical adoration of the EOKA campaign. This was especially true after the intercommunal conflict that started in 1964 and led to the Turkish Cypriots setting up their administrations in Island-wide enclaves
Now the use of the EOKA struggle as the foundation myth for a virtually Greek Cypriot Cyprus Republic went entirely unchallenged.

Greek Cypriots as 'victims'

THE narrative of the EOKA campaign in school text books, state propaganda, rhetoric and commemoration has always glossed over why enosis failed, thus giving plenty of scope to the general public to explain this contradiction by inventing conspiracy theories. Vague references to impersonal international forces, which opposed the 'fair' demand of enosis has encouraged this speculation.

According to Eco the need for conspiracy beliefs stem from a 'deep, private frustration'. A conspiracy theory offers a way out of this frustration because 'there can be no failure if there really is' a conspiracy theory. The frustration of the failure to achieve enosis is, therefore, ascribed to some superior 'dark force' that absolves its victims from any guilt and instead raises them to the status of martyrs.

Fittingly the EOKA narrative stresses the victimization of the Greek Cypriots and venerates as martyrs of the nation all the fighters who lost their life during the campaign.

In the same vein the proliferation of conspiracy theories reflects the collective low self-esteem of Greek Cypriot society and a lack of confidence to accept reality for what it is. Power struggles are hardly 'fair'. Every action has a reaction and violence not only causes counter-violence but often it has unpleasant unintended consequences.

There was nothing unique about the case of Cyprus or was it the only colony to go through a tortuous process to independence.

More importantly, there was nothing inevitable about enosis and, like any other political aim, it was not achieved because of the mistakes made in the execution of a strategy.

Because the Greek Cypriot 'lacks steady nerves (he) asks himself: "Who's behind this plot, who's benefiting?" He has to find an enemy, a plotter, or it will be, God forbid, his fault".

Time for the truth


HISTORICAL truth matters and for this reason these conspiracy theories need to be tackled because they obscure our understanding of the past. This is not to say that the concept of historical truth is unproblematic or that truth no matter how one may define it is easy to establish. Yet certain interpretations should be dismissed as false or else we open the doors to a pernicious relativism where anything goes. That is not the aim of history and for this reason the historian has a duty to separate the metaphorical dross from the gold.

The second point, which is especially pertinent to the Cypriot context, is that conspiracy theories have a disproportional influence on non-academic historical knowledge. The belief that at some point a conspiracy changed the course of history is still widespread in Greek Cypriot society.

Because of the reluctance of the historians to challenge this attitude the popular understanding of Cypriot history has been dominated by conspiracies and a simplistic binary worldview where the non-Greek Cypriots are often perceived as potential plotters or enemies of the state. Whereas in other countries conspiracy theories are on the fringe of historiography, in Cyprus they are virtually embedded in the public discourse and their proponents even challenge scholarly historical interpretations.

Interpretations, which call for self-criticism and a cool appraisal of the EOKA struggle, are dismissed by EOKA supporters as yet another conspiracy that aims to undermine the national identity of the Greek Cypriots.

Behind such theories lies a reluctance to accept the findings of scientific historical inquiry and a deep-seated anti-intellectualism that prefers to view history in emotional terms.

In reality the decolonization of Cyprus was the result of a Greek Cypriot strategy going awry in the face of superior conflicting forces. Crucially its end was unintentional, a compromise born out of necessity between all interested parties as everybody settled for less than they had hoped.


(as an aside perhaps the reason I upset so many people here is because I do not carry the baggage of the past like a millstone around my neck as I was not subject to the brainwashing that seems to happen in Cypriot schools but am prepared to be objective eevn about the many failings of Britain and its foreign policy)

In my view the main people at fault for what happened in Cyprus in the period 1963 to 1974 , culminating in the double invasion, where (a) the Greek Government, in particular the Post 1967 Junta, (b) The turkish government and (c) some Cypriots themselves in particular the sections of both communties who continued to seek Enosis/Takism/Double Enosis when as Demtris Assos argues from 1955 Independance was the only way forward.
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby bill cobbett » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:27 pm

As we're referring to the SBAs in this, a little realistic negotiation may be in order, at some time in the future post settlement....

Now GB has already said and it's been repeated a few times that the Dhekalia base will be reduced in size and therefore some of its land will be ceded to the Republic where it belongs on Liberation Day.

Now some bright CY, a good negotiator at the CY Foreign Ministry may wish to think about the following...

The Akrotiri base is similarly big, negotiate for a similar offer for there as well.

Then question the whole nature of the sovereignty issue and let's face it sovereignty is a polite word for occupation and colonialism. It has to end, so negotiate to change the basis of GB being there from "freehold" (as it were) to a time limited "leasehold" tenure, something like a 99 year lease along the lines of the example of Hong Kong/New Territories.

What am suggesting is imho realistic and achievable ... oh and it doesn't send the wrong signals.
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby Nikitas » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:22 am

always expect the worst from the British. Do not be surprised if they decide to shrink Dhekelia and start the "equitable" bullshit ploy of wanting to the give the vacated area 50-50 to the "two communities". The saving grace there is that all the villages that are within the base area are GC villages. It would be hard to hand EU citizens to an occupying power. But even so, expect everything.
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby humanist » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:31 am

don't trust the Brits
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby Bananiot » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:01 am

"ENA XAMENO RANTEVOU ME TIN ISTORIA"
"A MISSED APPOINTMENT WITH HISTORY"

This is a book written by Chrysostomos Perikleous, for decades a top member of EDEK and thus a person nobody can accuse of bias. Read it and find all the answers you are after, if you care for the truth that is. If not, you are welcome to remain in the warn embrace of Morpheus.
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby Piratis » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:04 pm

supporttheunderdog, here is the definition of "conspiracy theory":

A conspiracy theory explains an event as being the result of an alleged plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.


So what exactly is a "conspiracy theory" in the case of Cyprus? We always knew that Britain was in Cyprus to serve her own interests on our expense and from the 1950s everybody knew that Britain and Turkey were collaborating in order to serve their own interests on the expense of the Cypriot people. There was absolutely nothing unknown to the general public about the actions of these two Imperialist countries and therefore there is no "conspiracy theory", just good old colonialism and imperialism.

Partition was not something that was first thought in the 60s or 70s, but was in fact something that was proposed in the 50s by the British, who wanted to involve Turkey in Cyprus and use the Turkish minority on the island as means to prevent Cyprus from being truly liberated like most other Greek islands. Without the conflict with the TCs (who were sponsored by Turkey and the UK) there wouldn't be any chance for the British maintaining "sovereign" bases in Cyprus. Similarly, if this conflict ever ended, then the united Cypriot people would be far more likely to demand the decolonization of the parts of Cyprus which remain under colonial rule. This is why Britain never wanted a true unification of Cyprus and they have instead always sponsored divisive "solutions". (1960 agreements, Annan plan, etc)



Please note what Lennox Boyd is saying in his visit to Turkey:
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby Piratis » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:14 pm

Bananiot wrote:"ENA XAMENO RANTEVOU ME TIN ISTORIA"
"A MISSED APPOINTMENT WITH HISTORY"

This is a book written by Chrysostomos Perikleous, for decades a top member of EDEK and thus a person nobody can accuse of bias. Read it and find all the answers you are after, if you care for the truth that is. If not, you are welcome to remain in the warn embrace of Morpheus.


The Annan plan was a missed opportunity for the TCs, Turkey, the UK (the ones who had to gain from it) and those who just didn't care for Cyprus and they wanted the issue closed.

For the vast majority of the Cypriot people the Annan plan would be a disaster and this is why your prediction that we would regret rejecting that monstrosity did not come true, even though you did everything possible to punish the Cypriot people for rejecting the plan that would serve the interests of your masters.
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Re: GB and the Cyprus EEZ

Postby kurupetos » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:57 pm

Bananiot wrote:"ENA XAMENO RANTEVOU ME TIN ISTORIA"
"A MISSED APPOINTMENT WITH HISTORY"

This is a book written by Chrysostomos Perikleous, for decades a top member of EDEK and thus a person nobody can accuse of bias. Read it and find all the answers you are after, if you care for the truth that is. If not, you are welcome to remain in the warn embrace of Morpheus.

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