Cyprus-Forum.com

[kurupetos]

I recently had a Turkish Cypriot (who seemed pretty moderate in his views) tell me how great Ataturk was and that Cyprus was 'originally' Venetian. He obviously had that thrown back in his face.

Was his name Yusuf?

[Get Real!]

If you speak Greek as a first language, uphold Greek traditions, then you're more Greek than anything else.

That's a major fallacy.

The English language is far more widespread than Greek yet users don't necessarily identify themselves as English because they understand it's just a LABEL!

The Greek language is also a LABEL of a language that wasn’t even invented in Greece!

As for "Greek traditions", what exactly are Cypriots doing that is a "Greek tradition" and what makes you so sure they're not Cypriot traditions or from another country?

If you get out of the bad habit of assuming that everything is Greek you'll start to see the light...

[repulsewarrior]

welcome panicos,

...what is the English language today was Greek then, as language goes.

...to be accurate, it appears as though the island developed quite distinct cultures under this common language establishing on the mainland in its expansion, becoming the city-states from which a Greek identity was founded.

...in other words, we the island dwellers, are still farmers to "Greeks", farmers today as we were farmers then, a place where they left sleepy Principals to reside, dismissing the importance of these roots and their origins as an upper class, in their objective toward a greater plunder.

...although bicommunal does not yet have any definition, it cannot mean tearing the island in two, it can mean anything but tearing the island in two, what is proposed is a Unified State, and within this Federation, National Assemblies as well; where Persons in their daily lives can sustain this distinct identity first, while equally recognising as Individuals their Unity in defending the Principals of Universal Rights as one People.

...lol, if the TrnC is against a BBF, then there must be something good about it!

[Panicos UK]

Panicos UK wrote:If you speak Greek as a first language, uphold Greek traditions, then you're more Greek than anything else.

That's a major fallacy.

The English language is far more widespread than Greek yet users don't necessarily identify themselves as English because they understand it's just a LABEL!

The Greek language is also a LABEL of a language that wasn’t even invented in Greece!

As for "Greek traditions", what exactly are Cypriots doing that is a "Greek tradition" and what makes you so sure they're not Cypriot traditions or from another country?

If you get out of the bad habit of assuming that everything is Greek you'll start to see the light...

Actually I've just got out of the habit of saying that Cyprus is Cypriot, whatever that means!

If language nor traditions denote ethnicity, then what does? Is a man of Nigerian origin who was born in Greece more Greek than me? I was born in the UK, but my parents are Greek Cypriot from Morphou and Maroni, then Kythrea, Kalavasos, Larnaca etc. Originally the human race is said to have evolved in Africa. Are we all African? Of course not. Ethnicity is more to do with culture than anything else. Place of birth, or origin is a distant second or third.

Of course these are all labels - we communicate with language and we have set 'nouns' to denote objects, places etc. What 'light' are you referring to? That we should be subjects in a new Ottoman Empire? The majority of Greek Cypriots speak Greek as a first language. The majority of Greek Cypriots are Eastern Orthodox in religion. The majority of Greek Cypriots observe both Greek and Eastern Orthodox feasts and celebrations - and the majority would identify themselves as Greek. How can you say they are NOT Greek? What are you basing your argument on?

[Panicos UK]

Panicos UK wrote:I recently had a Turkish Cypriot (who seemed pretty moderate in his views) tell me how great Ataturk was and that Cyprus was 'originally' Venetian. He obviously had that thrown back in his face.

Was his name Yusuf?

No, it was Taner!

[GreekIslandGirl]

Modern Greece has more or less defined itself as a partial victory over the Ottoman empire. To identify with Greek culture is to be Greek in my opinion. It's a bit like being Jewish I suppose (I wouldn't know for sure!). If you speak Greek as a first language, uphold Greek traditions, then you're more Greek than anything else. If I went and lived on Mars but kept to Greek traditions would I be a Martian? Of course not, I would be Greek.

It's the same with the vast majority of 'cypriots'. They are Greek, not cypriot. The same with the cretans, they are Greek. I don't see anything wrong with the 'Megai idea' in principle. The problem is at what cost do we pursue this idea? If we resort to murder of those that stand in our way, then thats too heavy a price. If regions with devolved power vote for the creation of a greater Greece then that's acceptable and should be acceptable to everyone.

I personally think the BBF is a bad set of solution parameters as it entrenches division. The UN has many resolutions on Cyprus calling for the Turkish army to withdraw yet these are not referred to. The Greek Cypriot leadership seems scared to up the ante while the so-called Turkish Cypriot representatives keep pulling the terms of the agreement closer and closer and closer to what they want (not partition, but total control of Cyprus). Don't under-estimate the colonial mentality, both from the Brits and the Turks. I recently had a Turkish Cypriot (who seemed pretty moderate in his views) tell me how great Ataturk was and that Cyprus was 'originally' Venetian. He obviously had that thrown back in his face.

Apologies if I've gone off topic, I'm new at contributing to this forum.

A great post!

[kurupetos]

Panicos UK wrote:I recently had a Turkish Cypriot (who seemed pretty moderate in his views) tell me how great Ataturk was and that Cyprus was 'originally' Venetian. He obviously had that thrown back in his face.

Was his name Yusuf?

No, it was Taner!

Thank God.

[Get Real!]

If language nor traditions denote ethnicity, then what does?

What Greek traditions are these that Cypriots follow? You haven't come up with any!

Is a man of Nigerian origin who was born in Greece more Greek than me? I was born in the UK, but my parents are Greek Cypriot from Morphou and Maroni, then Kythrea, Kalavasos, Larnaca etc.

"Greek Cypriot" doesn't mean the person comes from Greece, was born in Greece, or has relatives in Greece! The Ottomans came up with that label to separate Christians from Muslims, but some of you seem to have taken it to mean something bizarre! A cypriot somehow "connected" with Greece that cannot be explained or proven!

Originally the human race is said to have evolved in Africa. Are we all African? Of course not.

Well of course, how can that be... the whole world is Greek right?

Ethnicity is more to do with culture than anything else. Place of birth, or origin is a distant second or third.

You are very confused!

Did you graduate from a Greek gymnasium in Cyprus?

[Panicos UK]

Panicos UK wrote:If language nor traditions denote ethnicity, then what does?

What Greek traditions are these that Cypriots follow? You haven't come up with any!



Is a man of Nigerian origin who was born in Greece more Greek than me? I was born in the UK, but my parents are Greek Cypriot from Morphou and Maroni, then Kythrea, Kalavasos, Larnaca etc.

"Greek Cypriot" doesn't mean the person comes from Greece, was born in Greece, or has relatives in Greece! The Ottomans came up with that label to separate Christians from Muslims, but some of you seem to have taken it to mean something bizarre! A cypriot somehow "connected" with Greece that cannot be explained or proven!



Originally the human race is said to have evolved in Africa. Are we all African? Of course not.

Well of course, how can that be... the whole world is Greek right?



Ethnicity is more to do with culture than anything else. Place of birth, or origin is a distant second or third.

You are very confused!

Did you graduate from a Greek gymnasium in Cyprus?

Hi Get Real.

First off, my points are all seriously made. If you can't refute them without resorting to cheap tricks and insults, then there's no point in replying.

Second, if I say I am Greek, who are you to say I am not?

Third, there are thousands of Greek traditions the Greek Cypriots still follow. Most of these are religious feasts, fasting, prayers for the departed, ecclesiastical procedure, singing, as well as folklore, dancing music, traditional instruments, and of course language (to name but a few). Actually it was the British that came up with the labels 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' although at the time over 95% of the 'Greek Cypriots' identified themselves as ethnic Greeks and the majority of 'Turkish Cypriots' as ethnic Turks. Do we at least agree on this point?

[Get Real!]

...there are thousands of Greek traditions the Greek Cypriots still follow. Most of these are religious feasts, fasting, prayers for the departed, ecclesiastical procedure,

Since when are Cypriot religious traditions Greek? Are you assuming that Orthodoxy and/or Christianity came from Greece by any chance?

...singing, as well as folklore, dancing music, traditional instruments

Music? The Spanish speaking world listen to each other’s music most likely because they understand what’s being said, but do they identify themselves as Spaniards?

http://www.spanishseo.org/img/2008/09/s ... ntries.png

...and of course language (to name but a few).

Are you assuming that the Greek language was invented in Greece?

Actually it was the British that came up with the labels 'Greek Cypriot' and 'Turkish Cypriot' although at the time over 95% of the 'Greek Cypriots' identified themselves as ethnic Greeks and the majority of 'Turkish Cypriots' as ethnic Turks. Do we at least agree on this point?

No. The British inherited and continued using the "ethnic" divisions as created by the Ottomans. The British simply translated a "Rum" into "Greek Cypriot" and a "???" (I forget now what they called them) into "Turkish Cypriot".

Did you graduate from a Greek gymnasium in Cyprus?