Cyprus-Forum.com

[bg_turk]

akiner,

I think you should start using english please so that everybody can understand your questions,

Yes I know many kurds and I have a first hand experience with nationalism and xenophobia in Turkey. I have a kurdish friend, now living in Sweden, and her father has been shot by turkish security forces for being a "PKK terrorist". Also I guess you know the case of a shooting of an innocent kurdish teen, under the false claim that he was a terrorist. Another event that really infuriarated me was an attempt to lynch some activists in Erzurum by some stupid mob for handing papers that advocate more minority rights for kurds. Turkey has to improve all these shortcomings in its human rights record. Please, dont misunderstand me, I am saying all of this for the good of turkey. For real progress Turkey must face its problem, not deny their existence. I want a Turkey that is proud of its diversity and rich culture, not one that belongs to narrowminded nationalists and xenophobes.

You try to wrongly imply that since kurds have reached hight status in Turkey there is no real problem, but in fact all these people have done so not as "kurds" but as "turks". No person empracing her kurdish identity, like Leyla Zana for instance, would ever be allowed any higher positionts in Turkey. There are many exmpales of countries where minorities have greater rights than turkey: definitely not Greece but Bulgaria is a good example for instance. The turkish party DPS is currently in the ruling coalitian. Can you imagine an openly kurdish party like HADEP ruling Turkey?
By the way Greece is even worse in terms of political representation for minorities, in fact is there any turk or slav in the hellenic parliament?

[akiner]

GIz33k0, in the name of humanrights(which is a cool game that u ,Europe and "Kurds" are playing with Turkey) let me wright as i want

bg_turk,
Another event that really infuriarated me was an attempt to lynch some activists in Erzurum by some stupid mob for handing papers that advocate more minority rights for kurds.


Madem söz istekler yerine olaylardan bahsetmeye geldi, iletişim okuyan bir arkadaşım vardı "Erzurumluydu kendisi" anlattıklarından aklımda kalanları yazıyorum.90'ların ortalarında ailesi ile Ankara'ya seyahat ederlerken pkk barikatına rastlayıp arkalarındaki otobüs ile birlikte durdurulmuşlar, kız kardeşi, otobüs şöförü ve birkaç yolcu alı koyulmuş diğerleri salınmış... Güvenlik güçleri şöför ve yolculardan bir kısmının cesetlerini bulmuşlar gece yarsı.Ama kız kardeşine ne olduğu ozaman muamma idi ve bu o bölgede yaşanan tek olayda değil..

Demek istediğim şudur hassasiyetin yüksek olduğu yerlerde provakasyon yaparsan tabiki tepkiyide en yüksek düzeyde alırsın, bu ölü çıkan eve gidip hiç sevmezdim rahmetliyi geberdiği iyi oldu demek gibi bişey.... Ama gözden kaçırdığımız birşey varki oda kürtlerin Lozana göre azınlık olarak tanımlanmadığıdır ve içinde bulunduğumuz durumda dahi azınlık değillerdir ki "resmi olara" daha fazla azınlık hakkına mashar olsunlar, 1900'lerin ilk çeyreğinde Anadolu'nun nüfusu 13 milyon anca varken bu isteklerini ortaya koymayıp anca anca 70lerin başlarından sonra "garip" bir şekilde harekete geçmeleri manidar değil midir?

Can you imagine an openly kurdish party like HADEP ruling Turkey?

Tabikî şayet Hadep %10 barajını aşaşıp meclise girerse buyursun bu ülke yi parti programına göre yönetsin, burda demokrasiye vurulmuş bir kırbaç gibi görülen barajın yüksekliğini tartışmak gereksiz ver saçma olcaktır. Çünkü Türkiye büyüklünde nufüsa sahip bir ülkede seçimlere 20den fazla partinin girdiğini düşünürsek barajsız 4-5 partili koalisyonların iktidarda yer alacağını görürüz ki bu ülke 2 partili koalisyonlarla bile çok kötü yönetilmiştir. Son olarak şunu söylemek isterim %4-6 oranında bir baraj zaten istikrar(o olmazsa demokrasiden söz edemeyiz) için gereklidir. Söylediklerim ışığında hala Türkiye 'ye yönelik sözlerinin haklı olduğuna kanaat getiremiyorum...
Biraz Uzun oldu ama En derin Saygılarımla

[Piratis]

Greece has the worst human rights record in Europe

Bg_turk, this is a baseless accusation. Obviously greece is not the best in terms of human rights, but it is not the worst in europe either. There are websites that list the human rights violations in every country, and in most cases the lists are long.

However Greece is in a much better position than Turkey in terms of human rights. If Turkey can become like Sweden then great. However now they are far behind, and it would be good to take lessons from everybody with a much better record and stop the excuses.

Greece and Cyprus should also look at countries with better hr records and try to become better.

akiner, you keep violating the forum rules my friend. Please show some respect to the rest of us and post in English or I am afraid you will be banned in the end.

[bg_turk]

However Greece is in a much better position than Turkey in terms of human rights. If Turkey can become like Sweden then great.

Piratis, please, can you for once stop defending Greece. Minority rights in Greece are as bad if not worse than in Turkey and Greece is the most xenophobic country in the EU. You have the lowest immigrant rate and you have the lowes rate of accpted assylum seekers. For once forget that you are a greek and imagine how you would feel as a turk or albanian in Greece? Or imagine you were the sudanese asylum seeker that was imprisoned in Greece.

[GIz33k0]

[quote="akiner"]GIz33k0, in the name of humanrights(which is a cool game that u ,Europe and "Kurds" are playing with Turkey) let me wright as i want



i dont care what rights you have, because as i understand forum rules is too speak in english, i suggest you do so, so the rest of us can understand what your trying to express. If you choose to continue then i will contact the forum moderator.

[ManoWAR]

Minority rights in Greece are as bad if not worse than in Turkey and Greece is the most xenophobic country in the EU.

MINORITY RIGHTS IN TURKEY????? WHAT IS THIS?????? Please dont bullshit us!
Minorities never had rights in that country!

As for xenophobia I guess you have never visited other European countries such as Germany and Austria!

[bg_turk]

akiner,

with all due respect I think I am breaking forum rules by replying to posts in turkish. But I just want to say one thing.

I think you are confusing the PKK and the kurdish people. The PKK are terrorists which deserve no mercy, the kurdish people are citizens of the Turkish Republic with a right for self determination. You cannot compare the crimes committed against Turkish Citizens by the PKK, a terroris organization, with crimes commited against Turkish Citizens of kurdish origing by the Turkish Security forces, who are in fact supposed to protect tthem. Terrorists commit crimes, and the role of the security forces is to stop those crimes, not commite other crimes against people whose only guilt is that they are of the same ethnicity with those terrorists.

[bg_turk]

Minority rights in Greece are as bad if not worse than in Turkey and Greece is the most xenophobic country in the EU.

MINORITY RIGHTS IN TURKEY????? WHAT IS THIS?????? Please dont bullshit us!
Minorities never had rights in that country!

As for xenophobia I guess you have never visited other European countries such as Germany and Austria!

Kurds in Turkey can listen to news on the national TV "TRT" in their native language, they can study their own language in private schools - can minorities do the same in Greece? For god's sake you dont even recognize their existence.

Also xenophobia, the word, is greek - does this ring a bell . If Austria and Germany, which you say are xenophobic, admit more immigants than greece than this says it all. Greece is a very very xenophobic and schauvinist country.

[Piratis]

You have the lowest immigrant rate and you have the lowes rate of accpted assylum seekers.

When you say "you" what do you mean? Cyprus? In Cyprus we had the highest asylum applications per head in the whole world. If we were so bad as you present us then they wouldn't choose Cyprus.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4304919.stm

I am not defending Greece. I already said that Greece is not on the best country in terms of human rights and they should take lessons and improve. I also said that Turkey is much behind Greece or any other European country. Do you disagree?

[bg_turk]

You have the lowest immigrant rate and you have the lowes rate of accpted assylum seekers.

When you say "you" what do you mean? Cyprus? In Cyprus we had the highest asylum applications per head in the whole world. If we were so bad as you present us then they wouldn't choose Cyprus.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4304919.stm

I am not defending Greece. I already said that Greece is not on the best country in terms of human rights and they should take lessons and improve. I also said that Turkey is much behind Greece or any other European country. Do you disagree?

No you defend Greece all the time, and whenever I try to criticize Greek human right violations you always bring Turkey in, as if it is your national duty to defend Greece.