Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Maybe you are a hairy, Stone Age Cypriot throwback.

Uhh, have you ever seen the size of GR's head? He really looks like a neanderthal!

Din villan mou na dis agoma...

Choirokitiani boutsara!

[GreekIslandGirl]

There are some uncanny parallels between the Choirokitian settlers and the Greek neolithic farmers - how they spread and how they lived.

Our common origins history goes back even further than the Mycenaean introduction would have you believe!

..................

According to historians and archeological findings, the Neolithic Age in Greece lasted from 6800 to 3200 BC. The most domesticated settlements were in Near East of Greece. They traveled mainly due to overpopulation. These people introduced pottery and animal husbandry in Greece. They may as well have traveled via the route of Black sea into Thrace, which then further leads to Macedonia, Thessaly, Boeotia etc. The second way of traveling into Greece is from one island to another and such type of colonies has been found in Knossos and Kythnos.

The main characteristics of this era are the climate stabilization and the settlements of people. The Neolithic Revolution arrives with these people who traveled from Anatolia, Turkey. The economy of the region became steady with organized and methodical farming, stock rearing and, bartering and sculptures like pottery. People stopped traveling from region to region and permanent settlements in Greece. They domesticated animals like sheep and goats and grew plants and crops. They made their bases around sites where there was ample water supply and in open landscapes. The Neolithic Greece people can be said as the first 'farmers' and their lives were less complex and simple.
Archeological findings show more settlements in Northern Greece, like Thessaly and Sesklo. Villages were found in Thessaly around 6500 BC while settlements in Sesklo started in 5500 BC. The inhabitants of these areas couldn't have been more than a hundred people. The houses were made of stone foundations with a roof made of a thick layer of clay and timber. They were one-room houses measuring 10 to 50 square metres.
A small village was also found at an area called Nea Nikomedia, where people resided around 5800 BC. The houses were made of sticks and mud surrounded by fences.
http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/Neolithic/

[Get Real!]

There are some uncanny parallels between the Choirokitian settlers and the Greek neolithic farmers - how they spread and how they lived.

Our common origins history goes back even further than the Mycenaean introduction would have you believe!

Oh here we go again… the Madame has returned with the revised version!

The poor thing struggling to survive on the fence...

[Hermes]

No jelly brains! It goes Phoenician -> Cypriot -> Greek

Listen mutt-brain, the Greeks adapted the Cypriot syllabary to create the Greek alphabet. Thus Cyprus contributes to the development of Greek language. Then the Greek alphabet replaces the Cypriot syllabary. Thus Cyprus begets Greece which begets Cyprus. It's self-reinforcing. Dynamic. It's not a one-way relationship.

The've uncovered 300 and say that they've only done half.

20 have been excavated. And a very nice collection of stone houses they are too.

"Blimey! The Sotirans? Nice bunch I'm sure. They didn't quite make the history books, did they?"
- Not the Greek history books you've been reading... in them you may not even find Cyprus!

When they discover something let me know...

[kingsaxon]

historically-speaking there was an indigenous population on the island before any of the ethnicities mentioned above. This is what I would consider Cypriots who then by way of culture went through various stages of development, most notably Hellenism being the strongest influence. One thing for certain is we are only Greek by political nationalization. Cypriots have a strong sense of their own identity and not one of my family will tell you that they have strong affinity with Greece. And yes we could all be part Arab, Egyptian, Phoenician, Hittite, Frankish, Templar, Scottish (anyone noticed the red-haired scottish looking Cypriot?), Ottoman. But these definition belong to culturally defined groups and not strictly ethnic. So we much re-evaluate the question which should be one of inclusion. Is this an ethnic-nationalist debate or a cultural-nationalist one? If it is about the preservation of the unique and wonderful Cypriot culture, I think the latter is the best choice. Unless of course, your a fascist.

I myself am an English-Cypriot so I know where I stand. Who would deny my what I believe to be my heritage.

If the Greeks who came to Cyprus at about 1500BC are not indigenous to Cyprus, then the English (Angles) who went to Britain at about 500AD, could not possibly be indigenous to Britain. Not only the English went to Britain far later than Greeks came to Cyprus, but in Britain there are human settlements going back 30.000 years, as opposed to 10.000 years in Cyprus. (and the same kind of mixing happened in Britain as well - indigenous people, Celts, Romans, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, French and more recently blacks, asians and everything else imaginable)

And then you come here to claim that you are English-Cypriot (possibly with only one, or even none, of your parents being English), and at the same time you imply that we can not be Greek-Cypriots because that would be "fascist"? I hope you realize how arrogant your position is.

I don't know you and your family, but I can tell you that the vast majority of Greek Cypriots voted for enosis in 1950, while more recently the streets were flooded with people celebrating when Greece won the Euro, and all these despite all efforts by certain foreigners to de-Hellenize Cyprus, even forcing us against our will to be a separate state.

how the hell am I being arrogant. By simply denying that you should not base your agenda on ethnicity. I am not arrogant at all. And you are simply outright being antagonistic to strengthen your own views rather than sensibly weighing up the views of others for the sake of your own nationalistic proclivities. If this is the case then I will retaliate by stating your utter ignorance by not being able to differentiate in your argument between ethnicity (please define in the context of what I have stated in response), and the cultural factors. The fact of being a Cypriot is purely cultural! Did you not even read correctly the points I made?

Lets just clear this up immediately. the first settlers were Neolithic hunter-gathers (10,000 BCE)! Where is the evidence they were from Greece? The Mycenean Greek (about 14,000 BCE) were late comers (and the Hittites were here before that), and brought the first wave of Greek/Hellenistic culture to the island. They settled, but there was already an existent population in Cyprus! Read the history books!

And finally, I am talking about my cultural heritage. Did I make any such claim to my ethnicity? I am a bloody historian. Of course I know about where I come from which makes your ethnic argument completely bloody redundant. I have been teaching Anglo-Saxon history for the past year. I quite seriously suggest before you continue on this pseudo-political/dangerously nationalistic campaign/charade you go and take some lessons in history to properly back up your claims.

The only thing you got right in your response was that, in fact yes, my father's ancestry is German. But then where did the Germans come from. Oh? Wait, where did the Greeks come from? There appears to be a redundant argument about ethnicity going on, unless you paid attention to what I wrote. Greek-Cypriots can only possibly mean a political and cultural community (unless you can trace your ancestors back to the Myceneans or Ptolemics, which is reminiscent of a certain German ideology)Your argument, i state yet again is redundant from the viewpoint of ethnicity. the point you are making is the same point that all nationalisms for over a 100 years has claimed in the name of ethnicity and has caused countless deaths and violence. It is you that is arrogant and equally ignorant of the course of history and where nationalism takes people. in pushing the argument of ethnicity rather than supporting the cultural stance of course you are being fascist!

"Fascists seek to rejuvenate their nation based on commitment to the national community as an organic entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry..."

I am clearly stating that my agenda would be a program of inclusion based on people who contribute to the culture of Cyprus (the cultural influences of the past 4,000 years!), not one of ethnicity.

Next time i shall have to clarify my points more precisely so no-brainers get what I am talking about (again). Its almost as if you never read my quote at all and couldn't wait to just display your poorly argued views. And I suggest you don't jump straight on your war horse and have a sensible discussion.

(clarification note: indigenous refers to 'first settlers' - THEY WERE NOT GREEK! additionally Greeks is a latter term. Mycenaeans were not Greeks, both has marked different cultures! Alexander the Great, the second wave of so-called Greek conquest, was from Macedonia (although there were plenty of mercenaries in his army), which was a heterogenous empire that is still undefinable today and is arguably regarded as a region. Greece itself, like Italy was an enclave of states with it inhabitants belonging to a number of different tribes...the only thing that can make any of these 'peoples' Greek, Myceneaen, Hittite, Turkish is cultural unless you are into Eugenics and are planning on producing a race of pure-bloods)...I could go on, but I think you have alot of reading to do.

[kingsaxon]

Most of the discussion and evidence for this 'ethnicity claim' reads very much like 19th century anthropology funded by nationalist governments to support the 'origin of man' theories, sand the origins of their own country-folk (eg. Aryans). The Italians tried it, the Turkish tried it, the Greeks think they don't have to as though its is 'naturally occurring' taken-for-granted fact. This is truly a backward argument. We moved on from all this since the sixties.

[supporttheunderdog]

Cyprus was very welll known in the middle east for many hundreds of years before the Mycenaeans invaded and occupied the island, or parts thereof, in 1100BC or so, just as the Ottomans/Turks did in 1571 and/or 1974.

In the 14th century BC or so The KIngs of Aleshya (based at Engkomi in Eastern Cyprus) were mantaining a correspondence with the nearby Kings of Ugarit in the Akkadain Script, something that the Myceneans were incapable of doing.The Mycenaeans only took over enkomi after that time,

[Hermes]

Cyprus was very welll known in the middle east for many hundreds of years before the Mycenaeans invaded and occupied the island, or parts thereof, in 1100BC or so, just as the Ottomans/Turks did in 1571 and/or 1974.

This is about the dumbest thing I've read on this forum for a long time. And that's saying something...

[Get Real!]

No jelly brains! It goes Phoenician -> Cypriot -> Greek

Listen mutt-brain, the Greeks adapted the Cypriot syllabary to create the Greek alphabet. Thus Cyprus contributes to the development of Greek language. Then the Greek alphabet replaces the Cypriot syllabary. Thus Cyprus begets Greece which begets Cyprus. It's self-reinforcing. Dynamic. It's not a one-way relationship.

You cannot and do not, create anything when you're uneducated like Greeks were. It's the Cypriots that extended and improved their ancient language to what is labeled "Greek" today.

The Cypriots were literate for an entire millennium before Greeks started uttering funny noises they called a language.

Your Greek gymnasium propaganda education has set like concrete in your pea.

[Hermes]

No jelly brains! It goes Phoenician -> Cypriot -> Greek

Listen mutt-brain, the Greeks adapted the Cypriot syllabary to create the Greek alphabet. Thus Cyprus contributes to the development of Greek language. Then the Greek alphabet replaces the Cypriot syllabary. Thus Cyprus begets Greece which begets Cyprus. It's self-reinforcing. Dynamic. It's not a one-way relationship.

You cannot and do not, create anything when you're uneducated like Greeks were. It's the Cypriots that extended and improved their ancient language to what is labeled "Greek" today.

The Cypriots were literate for an entire millennium before Greeks started uttering funny noises they called a language.

Your Greek gymnasium propaganda education has set like concrete in your pea.

This is the second dumbest...