Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

Interesting Nikitas. Please confirm: Are you explicitly saying that in 1963 we had a civil war? You must be the only person that says this, here, it is all about the TC mutiny.

I'd say Cyprus had a short Civil war in July 1974 as a part of the Coup / Greek Invasion when there was a determined attempt to overthrow the Government and impose Enosis, which cameto an end in just afew days when the people rallied behind big Mak, which if not on 20th July with the Turkish Invasion certainly by 23rd July when Samson was removed from power.

[Get Real!]

Had there been a united Cyprus GR and the likes would bomb it.

You’re not wrong because I see nothing to unite and plenty to liberate…

[GreekIslandGirl]

Unsure as to how much we can read in to three sentences, but Levant remains a very brave journo, been shot at, bombed and remains the most outspoken critic of the Regime in the Occupied Areas.

False flags, anyone?

Repetitions ...

Not sure what you mean here but if you've met Sener and his team, seen the bullet holes, felt the atmosphere in that newsroom and seen - felt - the Turkish spooks watching your every move from outside, maybe you have a take on the situation.

I'm frankly surprised he's still alive and so, I think, is he. We're not worthy.

It's relative. So he opposes Turkey. Great! But, anyone who would propose returning to the 1960 constitutional set-up, and at this stage, is surely only thinking of the TCs - not the ongoing fight for Democracy for the whole island; for all its citizens. His suffering has been for the TCs and not all Cypriots, in that case; hence, a 'false-flag' as far as RoC is concerned. Not that I'm saying he had to lay down his life for all Cypriots - his choice. Good luck to him; the TCs need all the help they can get against Turkey - if only more of them knew it.

[B25]

Unsure as to how much we can read in to three sentences, but Levant remains a very brave journo, been shot at, bombed and remains the most outspoken critic of the Regime in the Occupied Areas.

False flags, anyone?

Repetitions ...

Not sure what you mean here but if you've met Sener and his team, seen the bullet holes, felt the atmosphere in that newsroom and seen - felt - the Turkish spooks watching your every move from outside, maybe you have a take on the situation.

I'm frankly surprised he's still alive and so, I think, is he. We're not worthy.

It's relative. So he opposes Turkey. Great! But, anyone who would propose returning to the 1960 constitutional set-up, and at this stage, is surely only thinking of the TCs - not the ongoing fight for Democracy for the whole island; for all its citizens. His suffering has been for the TCs and not all Cypriots, in that case; hence, a 'false-flag' as far as RoC is concerned. Not that I'm saying he had to lay down his life for all Cypriots - his choice. Good luck to him; the TCs need all the help they can get against Turkey - if only more of them knew it.

Well Said. There are some here who would Jizz in their pants at the mere mention of Sener Levents name.

[ZoC]

Unsure as to how much we can read in to three sentences, but Levant remains a very brave journo, been shot at, bombed and remains the most outspoken critic of the Regime in the Occupied Areas.

False flags, anyone?

Repetitions ...

Not sure what you mean here but if you've met Sener and his team, seen the bullet holes, felt the atmosphere in that newsroom and seen - felt - the Turkish spooks watching your every move from outside, maybe you have a take on the situation.

I'm frankly surprised he's still alive and so, I think, is he. We're not worthy.

It's relative. So he opposes Turkey. Great! But, anyone who would propose returning to the 1960 constitutional set-up, and at this stage, is surely only thinking of the TCs - not the ongoing fight for Democracy for the whole island; for all its citizens. His suffering has been for the TCs and not all Cypriots, in that case; hence, a 'false-flag' as far as RoC is concerned. Not that I'm saying he had to lay down his life for all Cypriots - his choice. Good luck to him; the TCs need all the help they can get against Turkey - if only more of them knew it.

it's just so heart-warming having this greek island girl - despite her own country's HUGE, HUGE crisis - devoting her energies to a foreign country like cyprus... restores one's faith in humanity, it does.

[bill cobbett]

For Gawd's sake, calm down reh Zoc... poor a bucket of cold water over yourself to cool down.

Boys and girl... this Levent and his staff at Afrika are the opposition to the Occupation Regime, one of the few groups, perhaps the only one, who are reaching out and who are open for discussion and business... far, far more so than the money grabbing trade unionist demos we saw earlier in the year.

Pleeeeese stop biting a hand that's reaching out to you.

Reh Zoc, if you've finished with the bucket, throw it at B25 please.

[Pyrpolizer]

It is the easiest and fasted way. Notice Sener does not say return to the 1960 agreements but to the partnership type of those agreements.
I am absolutely sure this is going to happen soon after we start getting gas out. Either the Kibrislis or our side will propose it.It will be return to the RoC system with some amendments. A one week to maximum one month talks at the negotiation table, plus a comprehensive confirmation by the Kibrislis of the laws and agreements the Kypreoi have done all these years running the RoC.

You talk as if the TCs merely caused a minor skirmish and we have only to agree to continue as if nothing much has happened.

Since Turkey revealed its hand, so soon, with the invasion, there cannot be any going back to 'partnerships'. This was undesirable then - and time and Turkey have revealed why such an unfair, one-sided 'partnership' was planned for us in the first place.

Turkey must be rubbing its hands with glee. Its expensive 'investment' might still bring home the bacon...

We cannot deny returning to the 1960 agreements, all we can do is negotiate amendments because of the defacto changes and events of all these years.
The real problems in 1960 agreements were the 30% on government jobs, the 40% in the army positions (of only a couple of thousand men) the veto rights of the vice president, the rights of the Guarantor powers and the fact that for education etc we had the communal assemblies, and . Now we have Ministry of Education, there will be no army, and certainly in the areas where the Kibrislis reside the government employees will be Kibrislis. There won't be fixed quotas for other positions, but positions open for every citizen. I don't have any problem with 30% MPs, and I don't think there will be a problem abolishing the Guarantees since we are now in the EU.
Other than that the 1960 agreements were fully functional in fact this is the constitution we continue running the RoC to date.

Returning to the 1960 agreements with some amendments we automatically solve the property problem, the settlers problem, the power sharing issue,we get full EU aquis, and the kibrislis get a bizonality that might last for ever in the sense they will continue be concentrated in the north. They also get bicommunality because the 1960 system was actually a bicommunal system.

So everybody wins!

[humanist]

Pyrpolizer, hi and thank you yet for another great post above. I totally agree with your comments.

Pyrpolizer for President.


I wonder if the Presidential office logs onto the Cyprus-Forum because I think they can take some valuable comments form here.

Mate can you expand a little on the comments about solving settler issues and property rights?

cheers

[wyoming cowboy]

the 1960 agreement actually was functional for 4 years until the TMT took over the Tc leadership, who were backed by the UK,CIA etc...,,does it really matter if we have a new agreement or the old one from 1960 when 50 rufians from either side can turn the island into a basketcase. One addition to the ROC constitution should be a mechanism to impeach the President, as it stands now the prez can blow up a billion euro power station and a naval base with no consequences.

[GreekIslandGirl]

It is the easiest and fasted way. Notice Sener does not say return to the 1960 agreements but to the partnership type of those agreements.
I am absolutely sure this is going to happen soon after we start getting gas out. Either the Kibrislis or our side will propose it.It will be return to the RoC system with some amendments. A one week to maximum one month talks at the negotiation table, plus a comprehensive confirmation by the Kibrislis of the laws and agreements the Kypreoi have done all these years running the RoC.

You talk as if the TCs merely caused a minor skirmish and we have only to agree to continue as if nothing much has happened.

Since Turkey revealed its hand, so soon, with the invasion, there cannot be any going back to 'partnerships'. This was undesirable then - and time and Turkey have revealed why such an unfair, one-sided 'partnership' was planned for us in the first place.

Turkey must be rubbing its hands with glee. Its expensive 'investment' might still bring home the bacon...

We cannot deny returning to the 1960 agreements, all we can do is negotiate amendments because of the defacto changes and events of all these years.
The real problems in 1960 agreements were the 30% on government jobs, the 40% in the army positions (of only a couple of thousand men) the veto rights of the vice president, the rights of the Guarantor powers and the fact that for education etc we had the communal assemblies, and . Now we have Ministry of Education, there will be no army, and certainly in the areas where the Kibrislis reside the government employees will be Kibrislis. There won't be fixed quotas for other positions, but positions open for every citizen. I don't have any problem with 30% MPs, and I don't think there will be a problem abolishing the Guarantees since we are now in the EU.
Other than that the 1960 agreements were fully functional in fact this is the constitution we continue running the RoC to date.

Returning to the 1960 agreements with some amendments we automatically solve the property problem, the settlers problem, the power sharing issue,we get full EU aquis, and the kibrislis get a bizonality that might last for ever in the sense they will continue be concentrated in the north. They also get bicommunality because the 1960 system was actually a bicommunal system.

So everybody wins!

I very much appreciate your clarification. It seems you are not in fact proposing a return to the 1960 Agreement - but to some 'advanced' version, very much in line with what Makarios (allegedly) proposed. But, what makes you think, second-time around, the TCs (aka Turkey) would more likely accept these amendments? Have they learnt some lesson?

I disagree with you that bi-zonality/bi-communality are immutable. This bifurcation was at the heart of what was wrong with the imposed Constitution and should be the keynote amendment. The most which would be required would be some positively-discriminated appointments of social workers/civil servants to address the concerns of the minorities (all minorities, not just TCs - much as they have in London Borough Councils).