Cyprus-Forum.com

[Harry]

Not to knock TC's but every TC on this site never has anything nice to say or pitch in. You act like GC's have been brutally abusing you from 74 on. Don't know if you know but the percentage of educated people from both sides have gone up dramatically from 74. But I cant understand than why you act like this. We're not the people you claim that we are, and we never claimed anything about you. Why so much tension if we're close to peace?It's all about stealing a state I guess, but time is catching up and instead of trying to peacedeal your crying worse than the Palestinians against Jews. Amazing.

[cypezokyli]

i am not really sure if are actually reading the tc posts.

Not to knock TC's but every TC on this site never has anything nice to say or pitch in

good things are said and also bad ones. its to the choice of everyone one of us to overestimate the bad ones and underestimate the good ones or vise versa.
there are nice things said but we choose not to see them

You act like GC's have been brutally abusing you from 74 on

we act like that. they tend to emphasize the period before 1974. both of us just chose a period.

Don't know if you know but the percentage of educated people from both sides have gone up dramatically from 74. But I cant understand than why you act like this.

???

We're not the people you claim that we are,

who are we actually?

and we never claimed anything about you

for which forum are u actually talking about?

It's all about stealing a state I guess,

if it were only that...

but time is catching up and instead of trying to peacedeal ..

time is indeed catching up. for who though?

your crying worse than the Palestinians against Jews

who was the one saying : we never claimed anything about you?

[Viewpoint]

Not to knock TC's but every TC on this site never has anything nice to say or pitch in. You act like GC's have been brutally abusing you from 74 on. Don't know if you know but the percentage of educated people from both sides have gone up dramatically from 74. But I cant understand than why you act like this. We're not the people you claim that we are, and we never claimed anything about you. Why so much tension if we're close to peace?It's all about stealing a state I guess, but time is catching up and instead of trying to peacedeal your crying worse than the Palestinians against Jews. Amazing.

Please read TCs previous posts there are many positive comments you just choose to block them out and concentrate on the negative which is usually to do with things you have difficulty accepting.
What have GCs been doing since 1974? hiding behind Denktas only to reveal their true face during the run up to the referendum and a big fat OXI? relishing the stolen recognition and financial assistance? persuing embargos and implementing them to the hilt to keep us economically hostage, having us removed from every international platform, claiming falsely you represent the TC community, no voting rights for your local TCs, your current leader claims no TCs were killed during 1964-1974, your current leader lied about requesting restart of negotiations, to name some...all in goodfaith?? because you love us so much.
More educated people, or brain washed?, a survey reveal your younger generation still harbour bad feelings and intentions towards the TC community to a higher degree than the youth of the TRNC.
Do you feel that the now well educated people (take this forum as an example) think that much differently from our fathers and the mindset that caused 1974? and partition. We are still very intollerant and feel threatened by each others views and attitudes.

What are GCs like? you tell me please explain!!! and why should we trust them? could you kindly give me 3 reasons why?

Please think again and check the forum ask Piratis what he claims about us, the standard things claimed about us are thief, murderer, rapists, greedy, ignorant anatolians, parasites, can go on but ı think you have gotten the general degrading drift....

What do u mean peace, are u living on mars again we have peace it a solution to unite and live in one country is what we dont have.

Dont forget you just claimed we stole, whats already partially ours, isnt that funny can anyone steal what belongs to them?? maybe the distribution could be different but at the end of the day we blong here as well, its not just GCs....as for crying ask your present leader hes and expert.

[Othellos]

Please think again and check the forum ask Piratis what he claims about us, the standard things claimed about us are thief, murderer, rapists, greedy, ignorant anatolians, parasites, can go on but ı think you have gotten the general degrading drift....

It is rather amusing that you say this, Viewpoint, because this is the idea that some of us also get about your views on GCs when we read through some of your posts, like the one above for example. As for piratis, I disagree with him on many issues but I do not remember him trying to justify any invasion, ethnic cleansings, ongoing occupations, "re-distribution" of other peoples stolen properties and racial apartheit in a future and otherwise "united" Cyprus, like some others do in here.

Dont forget you just claimed we stole, whats already partially ours, isnt that funny can anyone steal what belongs to them?? maybe the distribution could be different but at the end of the day we blong here as well, its not just GCs....as for crying ask your present leader hes and expert.

No one said that you "do not belong here", but what about that (larger) part that was never yous in the first place and that was actually stolen from the GCs at gunpoint back in 1974? I do not expect you to overcome all your biases in a day or even in this lifetime. But if your aim in here is not to provoke the kind of responses that you have been getting and if you want your posts to start making some sense then I suggest that you try reconsidering your current "selective" approach ont he issues.

O.

[Viewpoint]

Othellos

It is rather amusing that you say this, Viewpoint, because this is the idea that some of us also get about your views on GCs when we read through some of your posts, like the one above for example. As for piratis, I disagree with him on many issues but I do not remember him trying to justify any invasion, ethnic cleansings, ongoing occupations, "re-distribution" of other peoples stolen properties and racial apartheit in a future and otherwise "united" Cyprus, like some others do in here.

Dont think I follow you here (in bold), can you be more specific, as to your other point, you are clearly suggesting that I support these issues and Piratis doesnt, well lets put it this way we are sitting on different sides of the fence we view issues differently, for example the intervention by Turkey in 1974 for Piratis was uncalled for but for me it was a matter of life or death, so if you consider this approach then surely you will go part of the way to understanding my viewpoint. The utopian solution is not out there and we have to firstly address those issues that cause the mistrust and biased that we time and time again reveal when trying to solve specific issues. We have to show flexibility and understanding in order to build, maintain peace and stability in a united Cyprus we have to be visionary enough think outside of the boxes we are so used to using.
Unfortunately imo we as Cypriots do not possess these qualities and are incapable of going anywhere close to resolving any issues which concern bringing about a solution that both communites would commit to 100%.

No one said that you "do not belong here", but what about that (larger) part that was never yous in the first place and that was actually stolen from the GCs at gunpoint back in 1974? I do not expect you to overcome all your biases in a day or even in this lifetime. But if your aim in here is not to provoke the kind of responses that you have been getting and if you want your posts to start making some sense then I suggest that you try reconsidering your current "selective" approach ont he issues.

Who caused the events that led upto to 1974? we did?, if both sides had of embraced Cypriotisim back then we would not be divided today. Us stealing? did we really? the events caused the outcome, now if you say we took more that our fair share then I can understand your point of view. But surely this is what we have been trying to correct and very badly imo with all the negotiations since 1974.
If my posts do not make sense then arent you contradicting yourself by saying I provoke a reactions obviously people do understand and respond accordingly. If Im not spouting out exactly what you want to hear I suggest you do not hold your breath as I have not been given any reason by this forum or the GC administration to change my line of thought. Although I would love to be wrong GCs time and time again prove that I am right in my basic opinions that the way forward is a recognized partition for land solution.

[Othellos]

Dont think I follow you here (in bold), can you be more specific,

In your earlier post part of which I quoted above, you suggest that Piratis dwells on a series of gross misconceptions about who and what the TCs are and personally I can agree with you here. But when I read your posts, I too think that you also dwell on your own misconceptions as to who and what GCs are and I can only disagree with them.

…….as to your other point, you are clearly suggesting that I support these issues and Piratis doesnt, well lets put it this way we are sitting on different sides of the fence we view issues differently, for example the intervention by Turkey in 1974 for Piratis was uncalled for but for me it was a matter of life or death, so if you consider this approach then surely you will go part of the way to understanding my viewpoint.

While we are on different sides we can perhaps argue about wether Turkey's invasion was legal and justified. What we cannot argue about though is the fact that Turkey’s invasion caused the deaths of +6000 GCs in less than a month. According to some Turkish numbers this is around 8 times the number of TCs who died because of inter-communal violence between 1963 -1967. And 31 years after 1974 we still have 1500 missing (for comparison purposes the US had about 2500 MIAs throughout the 7 years they were in Vietnam) and 180,000 refugees. This is the magnitude of the disaster caused by Turkey’s ethnic cleansing in Cyprus which in my opinion several TCs including you are still reluctant to acknowledge.

The utopian solution is not out there and we have to firstly address those issues that cause the mistrust and biased that we time and time again reveal when trying to solve specific issues. We have to show flexibility and understanding in order to build, maintain peace and stability in a united Cyprus we have to be visionary enough think outside of the boxes we are so used to using.

What you say here is very nice, but part of what fuels the mistrust imo is the attitude / reluctance of people from both sides to acknowledge the suffering and damage that the other side has suffered during these last 50 years.

Unfortunately imo we as Cypriots do not possess these qualities and are incapable of going anywhere close to resolving any issues which concern bringing about a solution that both communites would commit to 100%.

Oh yes, we Cypriots still have a long way to go, especially when it comes to the leaders we choose. But why would those who genuinely care for reunification oppose a solution that is fair and that does not violate anyone's basic human or other legitimate rights?

From the Gc point of view, the main obstacle in reaching such a solution is because of the insistence of the Turkish side for a solution that will segregate / differentiate Cypriots based on their ethnic background in an otherwise "united" Cyprus. Is this insistence the result of TC fears towards GCs arising from 1963 – 1964? And if yes then what is the point to talk about "re-unification" when the average GC is seen as a threat and an enemy because of his desire to return home?

How about you, Viewpoint? Are you in favor of a solution that will truly reunify the island or are you after a settlement that will just "settle the account"? Your “land for recognition” idea is certainly along the account settling approach.

Who caused the events that led upto to 1974? we did?, if both sides had of embraced Cypriotisim back then we would not be divided today. Us stealing? did we really? the events caused the outcome, now if you say we took more that our fair share then I can understand your point of view. But surely this is what we have been trying to correct and very badly imo with all the negotiations since 1974.

We can talk about "if this" or "if that" forever and still get nowhere. Is this what you want? Regarding who stole what, Viewpoint, my question is who forced 180,000 GCs out of their homes and who is stopping them from returning? This is not about shares and percentages. It is about being allowed to live like a free human being in your country.

If my posts do not make sense then arent you contradicting yourself by saying I provoke a reactions obviously people do understand and respond accordingly. If Im not spouting out exactly what you want to hear I suggest you do not hold your breath as I have not been given any reason by this forum or the GC administration to change my line of thought. Although I would love to be wrong GCs time and time again prove that I am right in my basic opinions that the way forward is a recognized partition for land solution.

What i wrote above was based on the assumption that you are in favor of a viable solution that will truly reunify Cyprus. If this is the case with you (and that does not mean that you have to agree with everything I say) then I think that your posts are making little sense towards that direction and the kind of responses you are getting should have already hinted that to you.

O.

[Viewpoint]

Othellos

In your earlier post part of which I quoted above, you suggest that Piratis dwells on a series of gross misconceptions about who and what the TCs are and personally I can agree with you here. But when I read your posts, I too think that you also dwell on your own misconceptions as to who and what GCs are and I can only disagree with them.

I agree that both communities misconceptions are evident but the arrogant, degrading and belittling attitude consistently displayed by piratis and few others is not displayed by TCs...You have every right to disagree with my opinions and misconceptions if thats what you want to label them maybe you should try to address my misconceptions/fears/concerns and help me overcome them. Persuade my with logical arguement that GC can now be trusted and they have no hidden agebdas to dominate TCs and reduce our community to a minority status.

While we are on different sides we can perhaps argue about wether Turkey's invasion was legal and justified. What we cannot argue about though is the fact that Turkey’s invasion caused the deaths of +6000 GCs in less than a month. According to some Turkish numbers this is around 8 times the number of TCs who died because of inter-communal violence between 1963 -1967. And 31 years after 1974 we still have 1500 missing (for comparison purposes the US had about 2500 MIAs throughout the 7 years they were in Vietnam) and 180,000 refugees. This is the magnitude of the disaster caused by Turkey’s ethnic cleansing in Cyprus which in my opinion several TCs including you are still reluctant to acknowledge.

As I mentioned before our viewpoints are totally different about the issues we debate becasue we are coming at the problem from different angles so how do you expect to agree on anything? Death when unnatural is a gross waste of prescious life, yet situations and events sometimes unfortunately culminate in war and all normal reasonning is lost and needless deaths occur, war is never a desired action.
You refer to ethnic cleansing, how else would you have solved the problem if you had 2 communites at each other throats unable to live work or prosper together??? there was no government formation according to the constitution guidelines, TCs were living in bad conditions and inter communal killings were occuring. To top all this mayhem a coup is attempted to annex Cyprus to Greece something which according to the 1960 constitution cannot be done. At least you must admit that over the past 31 years we have not been killing each other, this for me is more important than anything else.

What you say here is very nice, but part of what fuels the mistrust imo is the attitude / reluctance of people from both sides to acknowledge the suffering and damage that the other side has suffered during these last 50 years.

Feel free to go through all my posts I have always declared that both sides suffered but does this acceptence build trust unfortunately not. The actions of your people and administration says more to me than anything else and they are not sending out the right messages, the TC stance is hardening, the momentum for unification has been lost and TCs are moving more and more towards recognized partition saying we can not agree or live with these people, they will swallow us up both politically and economically the first opportunity they get.

But why would those who genuinely care for reunification oppose a solution that is fair and that does not violate anyone's basic human or other legitimate rights?

But whats fair and does not violate anyones human rights is different for you as it is for me, it does not necessarily mean that TCs dont want to unite but the safety mechnism we demand to safe guard the existence of our community appears to be a stumbling block for many GCs and these are issues which TCs find difficult to compromise on as they have no trust for GCs and their intentions. Its at theis point that Gcs have to take measure that will address these issues and assist TCs to overcome these fears.

From the Gc point of view, the main obstacle in reaching such a solution is because of the insistence of the Turkish side for a solution that will segregate / differentiate Cypriots based on their ethnic background in an otherwise "united" Cyprus. Is this insistence the result of TC fears towards GCs arising from 1963 – 1964? And if yes then what is the point to talk about "re-unification" when the average GC is seen as a threat and an enemy because of his desire to return home?

This is what I have been trying to say since joining this forum whats the use? we are banging our heads against a brick wall and no action is being taken by either side to address these fears, surely it would be up to the GC administration to prove its trustworthyness??? to help TCs see that GCs can be trusted and are not out to dominate and control our community.

How about you, Viewpoint? Are you in favor of a solution that will truly reunify the island or are you after a settlement that will just "settle the account"? Your “land for recognition” idea is certainly along the account settling approach.

I want an end to the Cyprus issue and my opinions are well known on this forum, I cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel because neither side has the maturity to bring about a solution that both communities would be commited to. ı wish our leaders would prove me wrong but for me the end of the road was the referendum, for the first time the people had the chance to decide!!!!

Regarding who stole what, Viewpoint, my question is who forced 180,000 GCs out of their homes and who is stopping them from returning? This is not about shares and percentages. It is about being allowed to live like a free human being in your country.

Circumstances and events between our communites caused division and we are unable to agree on a basis for letting those people return and live where ever they wish, its a 2 way street.

What i wrote above was based on the assumption that you are in favor of a viable solution that will truly reunify Cyprus. If this is the case with you (and that does not mean that you have to agree with everything I say) then I think that your posts are making little sense towards that direction and the kind of responses you are getting should have already hinted that to you.

You appear educated and clever enough to work this one out for yourself, I have no problems with the answers I get on this forum, they shape my opinions and help me to decide whether we can or cannot live work and prosper in a united Cyprus.

[Piratis]

I agree that both communities misconceptions are evident but the arrogant, degrading and belittling attitude consistently displayed by piratis and few others is not displayed by TCs

Dear viewpoint, my worst "crime" in here is that I sometimes generalize and in rare occasions you manage to piss me of to the level I say things I shouldn't.

Please think again and check the forum ask Piratis what he claims about us, the standard things claimed about us are thief, murderer, rapists, greedy, ignorant anatolians, parasites, can go on but ı think you have gotten the general degrading drift....

Ok, lets take them one by one:
thief - These goes to those TCs that want to keep what was stolen from us. Not for all TCs, and even not for those that are currently living/using GC property but they do so temporarily until the Cyprus Problem is solved. I accept that in some occasions I have wrongly generalized with this. But yes, those that insist that what was stolen from us in 1974 now belongs to them and they will not give it back are thieves.

murderer - I have never generalized by calling the TCs murderers. Maybe I did so for the Turkish invasion army, or for the TCs that belonged to the TMT terrorist organization.

rapists - again I have never called the TCs rapists. The rapist were part of the Turkish army. This is just a fact.

greedy - Those that believe that the 18% of TCs should have 50% power, 29% of land etc, are not greedy? I think they are.

ignorant anatolians - i don't remember using this phrase. I think you are just making things up.

parasites - Maybe I used this word to describe some of your demands. But I never generalized.


Harry, it is for the interest of those TCs that want partition to present GCs in the worst way possible in order to excuse their actions.

[Viewpoint]

Dear Piratis, why not just admit that you use degarding and belittling terms against "Turks" be it TCs or mainland Turks because you view us scum living off stolen property, thieves and parasites who have the power in the favor but once power swings in your favor you will anialate us all, due to the grudge of 1974 and the inbred desire to get even.

[Piratis]

Viewpoint, what you described (scums etc) perfectly fits some TCs and Turks.

And of course when the balance of power shifts those scums will be punished and Cyprus will be reunited again.

If you did the same in 1974, and the Turkish army simply punished the scums (EOKA B etc) and they helped Cyprus to return to legality (as it was their duty) then we wouldn't have a problem today. Unfortunately your leaders were simply looking for excuses to execute their illegal criminal plans and nothing more.