Cyprus-Forum.com

[Othellos]

You appear educated and clever enough to work this one out for yourself, I have no problems with the answers I get on this forum, they shape my opinions and help me to decide whether we can or cannot live work and prosper in a united Cyprus.

It seems to me, Viewpoint, that your opinions and decisions on the issues have been formulated long ago and even before you started getting any answers in this forum. Consequently there is no reason for anyone to try and change your mind about anything as you suggest in the first paragraph of your above post, because this would be a total waste of time.

O.

[Viewpoint]

You appear educated and clever enough to work this one out for yourself, I have no problems with the answers I get on this forum, they shape my opinions and help me to decide whether we can or cannot live work and prosper in a united Cyprus.

It seems to me, Viewpoint, that your opinions and decisions on the issues have been formulated long ago and even before you started getting any answers in this forum. Consequently there is no reason for anyone to try and change your mind about anything as you suggest in the first paragraph of your above post, because this would be a total waste of time.

O.

Surely the reason we are here on this forum is to test out own opinions and learn from the each other what the other side thinks and feels. Our exchange of words will either help clarify and understand specific issues. The evaluation and decision of whether it would be better for us to unite is down to each individual just like the Annan plan, it was put to the vote and the outcome was no solution.
Your posts help me see and understand the mindset I would be facing if I were to live and work with GCs and what a united Cyprus would hold in store for me, my family and my community, unfortunately and I wish I could say it was different I do not feel the security to take that step forward and support a reunification with people that view me as a thief, parasite, murderer, rapist whatever derogatory words you may wish to use because your approach reeks revenge and vengence against the TC community. The desire to reduce us to a minority status in a united Cyprus still ranks high in your priority list, so my friends either you have to revise your attitudes and realize that TCs are not the greedy parasites you paint them out to be. Please feel free to try and change my mind Im willing to read what you have to say but dont forget what you post generates both positive and negative developments in each individual.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint, what you described (scums etc) perfectly fits some TCs and Turks.

And of course when the balance of power shifts those scums will be punished and Cyprus will be reunited again.

If you did the same in 1974, and the Turkish army simply punished the scums (EOKA B etc) and they helped Cyprus to return to legality (as it was their duty) then we wouldn't have a problem today. Unfortunately your leaders were simply looking for excuses to execute their illegal criminal plans and nothing more.

I wouldnt call people scum for getting on with their lives and trying to build a future for themselves, but each to their own opinion.

You must be a very patieint person as to hang everything on the changing of power, if it ever happens, wont be in your lifetime or many generations to come as super powers are not something u can buy with your credit card in orfanides shopping centre.

You may have a point about Turkeys intervention in 1974 but what was to guarantee that we Cypriots would have stopped killing each other and return to the constitiution with no hidden agendas, the GCs were still not happy with the rights granted to the TCs, what would they have done once Turkey had left? this we can only assume and I shudder at the thought becasue a second intervention chnace would have been very remote if at all possible, what woud have happened to TCs?
When it come to choice of leaders the TC community showed their will by getting rid of Denktas is was no easy feat but unfortunately you leader has a doubtful and questionable past his lies and obvious manipulation of the GC public will lead you nowhere but by the time you guys realize it may be to late. Food for thought?

[Piratis]

I wouldnt call people scum for getting on with their lives and trying to build a future for themselves, but each to their own opinion.

Here we go again.

I will repeat what I already said, I hope you will get it this time:

thief - This goes to those TCs that want to keep what was stolen from us. Not for all TCs, and even not for those that are currently living/using GC property but they do so temporarily until the Cyprus Problem is solved.

So Viewpoint, do you consider the land that is currently under occupation as your own land? Or you recognize that the largest part of that land does not belong to you and the solution should be the one that will allow the GCs to take control of their own properties?

You must be a very patieint person as to hang everything on the changing of power, if it ever happens, wont be in your lifetime or many generations to come as super powers are not something u can buy with your credit card in orfanides shopping centre.

I am patient. However in the 21st century things are moving much faster than you think. You can never know what the situetion will be in just 10-15 years from now.

what was to guarantee that we Cypriots would have stopped killing each other and return to the constitiution with no hidden agendas, the GCs were still not happy with the rights granted to the TCs, what would they have done once Turkey had left?

We could resume the discussions and solve our problems in a civilized way. Ethnic cleansing can not be the solution of anything. If you claim that ethnic cleansing can be the solution, then you are the same with those GC extremists that think that the solution is to remove all TCs from Cyprus. Would you consider an ethnic cleansing against you as a good solution? (it would also bring "peace")

So the "we can not live together, lets do ethnic cleansing" kind of mentality is wrong, to put it mildly, no matter from where it comes from.

[bg_turk]

Positive words?!

Turkish Cypritos have already taken positive actions! They have extended their hand in peace by accepting the Annan Plan, only to be later slapped in the face by a massive and arrogant greek cypriot NO.

[Kifeas]

You may have a point about Turkeys intervention in 1974 but what was to guarantee that we Cypriots would have stopped killing each other and return to the constitiution with no hidden agendas…

And as an alternative, Turkey came in and started killing us instead.

Viewpoint!
Do you know how many TCs were killed or went missing during the coup? Zero!
Do you know how many GCs were killed or went missing during and as a result of the coup? Only about 350!

Do you know how many GCs were killed during the first 3 days of the Turkish invasion? About 2,000, half of them after being taken hostages in Kyrenia and the surrounding villages -most of which were taken in the Kyrenia stadium and mass murdered.
Do you know how many TCs were killed by GCs or went missing after the lunching of the Turkish invasion and during the first 3 days, or until Kyrenia town was occupied? Less than 100!

Do you know how many TCs were taken captives by GCs after the Turkish invasion begun and during the first 1-36 hours? About 70,000! All the TC towns and villages in Pafos, Limassol, Larnaka and Famagusta districts. The only exception were the TC enclave of Lefkosia-Kionelli-agyrta and the old city of Famagusta.

Do you know when the first TC captives were murdered mainly by the EOKA B gangsters? After the 22rd of July, when all the news of what was happening in kyrenia by the Turkish Army against the GCs begun spreading around Cyprus.

Do all the above say anything to you?
Have the GCs, assuming that this was their intention, had the opportunity to massively kill thousands of TCs shortly after the Turkish invasion started on the 20th of July 1974? Surely they could! From the morning of the 20th of July and within the first 1-36 hours nearly 70,000 TCs were captured or surrendered. Did Turkey know that this could potentially have been the imitate reaction of the GCs upon the lunching of its military operation, namely the GCs to run over the majority of TC population around Cyprus? Of course they knew it! Did the GCs do it?

So viewpoint, stop the fairy tale stories that Turkey came here and saved you in 1974. The reality is that Turkey did put you in a great risk of potential extermination, should the GCs wanted to do that. And they had plenty of time to do it. Not only Turkey didn’t care about the risk they put you, but also on top of that they were particularly careless and senseless during their "peace operation," namely by mass murdering GC captives in Kyrenia and air bombing GC civilians along the Kyrenia coast.

[Kifeas]

And viewpoint, because I know you are going to tell me about Tochni, Aloa, Maratha and Sardaly villages, I tell you before hand that those TC civilians were murdered on the 14th of August, after Turkey lunched the second and more devastating for the GCs phase of its "peace operation."

[Othellos]

Surely the reason we are here on this forum is to test out own opinions and learn from the each other what the other side thinks and feels. Our exchange of words will either help clarify and understand specific issues.

and

Please feel free to try and change my mind Im willing to read what you have to say but dont forget what you post generates both positive and negative developments in each individual.

Viewpoint,

On 10/3/05 and only days after you joined this forum you were posting in caps:
"WE DONT TRUST GCS AND WE DONT WANT TO LIVE WITH THEM".

Do you still want me to believe that you are here to learn new thinngs or test your current views? And do u understand why I consider any attempt to "change your mind" a total waste of one's time?

O.

[Piratis]

Turkish Cypritos have already taken positive actions!

Positive actions? Positive action would be to allow our refugees to return to their home, to remove the Turkish troops, to allow legality to be restored, to allow human rights to be implemented. What positive action have they taken???

They have extended their hand in peace by accepting the Annan Plan, only to be later slapped in the face by a massive and arrogant greek cypriot NO.

What they have extended their hand on is not peace but on our land. They voted "yes" to a partition plan made by the Americans that would gift to them our lands and would legalize the violations against our human and democratic rights.

Since when it is arrogant to demand your human rights? Since when it is arrogant to demand no racial discrimination in your own country?

What is arrogant is the demand that the 18% of TCs should have the 50% of power and the 29% of land.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

thief - This goes to those TCs that want to keep what was stolen from us. Not for all TCs, and even not for those that are currently living/using GC property but they do so temporarily until the Cyprus Problem is solved.

Do you agree that Cyprus also belongs to TCs? and that we have tried to negotiate to return lands lastly with the Annan plan but unfortunately for many reasons we have been unsucessful. Teh return of land is there for you guys to accpet the fact that you chose not to is your right.

So Viewpoint, do you consider the land that is currently under occupation as your own land? Or you recognize that the largest part of that land does not belong to you and the solution should be the one that will allow the GCs to take control of their own properties?

The land you refer to is the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus recognized or not it is a fact, we live here and will continue to do so until a time we can agree a comprehensive solution or power swings in your favor and you can blow us all to kingdom come and live as you desire. If the comprehensive solution ever arrives and incorporates measures that TCs feel they can commit to and the TRNC is dissolved for a united Cyprus Republic, then I have no problem with land being returned to GCs where it is possible and the GCs that cannot reclaim disputed land should obtain real immediate compensation.

I am patient. However in the 21st century things are moving much faster than you think. You can never know what the situetion will be in just 10-15 years from now.

Im not as optimistic as you...

We could resume the discussions and solve our problems in a civilized way. Ethnic cleansing can not be the solution of anything. If you claim that ethnic cleansing can be the solution, then you are the same with those GC extremists that think that the solution is to remove all TCs from Cyprus. Would you consider an ethnic cleansing against you as a good solution? (it would also bring "peace")

So the "we can not live together, lets do ethnic cleansing" kind of mentality is wrong, to put it mildly, no matter from where it comes from.

Who can resume discussions?, I take it you are not joking Cypriots have not matured enough to talk and listen their capabilites are limited and our elected leaders cannot even meet socially, Talats hand is still in the air but it this will not last forever, if GCs cant agree anything with Talat then what chance do you have with any other TC leader we produce many are more hardline, before Talat was the GC choice what has changed now? he is just as pro solution as he ever was but if you dont find anyone to grasp your hand and negotiate then you cannot continually try to down grade every he says or does, you should question your own leader and not find excuses.

If 2 communites cannot work live and prosper together like 2 naughty children what do you do ???? you seperate them add to the risk of them killing each other what do you do put them in different rooms and keep them apart. you may respond that you should get them to sort out their differences I agree thats what we have been doing for the last 31 years we just cant, we do not have that ability or desire.

Are we really ethnically cleansed today in 2005?, GCs are free to visit the north and can stay for as long as they want, even rent homes here. That means we have GCs residing in the north is this progress dont you think under the circumstances.