Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

In my opinion soon after Christofias is gone in about 1 1/2 years, the new President will denounce one after another all concessions made up by the GC side over the years. a)territory 25%?? --> No more than 18% b)50K settlers-->no more than those who got married with Kibrislis c)BBF?? --> No true Federation only d) Properties? --> hmmm there has been no concession so far, so it will stay the same and finally e)return of Varoshia as per UN resolutions before he would even accept to sit on the negotiating table.
Oh I forgot: and for each and every statement of Erdogan or Eroglu for no return of this no return of that, one more denouncing from the GC side.

In the end the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments. End of story.

The danger is that the Turks come to their senses and accept Christofias' proposals. Christofias then announces he's got a great solution which he wants to put to a referendum! Can you imagine the chaos that would follow?

Christofias is a dangerous man at the present. He needs a solution that would salvage his reputation. But his loss of credibility means that he cannot hope to sell a solution to the GCs. He is in danger of dragging the country down with him. Our only hope is that Turkey is too stupid to see this and gives us the time to see the back of Christofias...

This is one of the few times I have to disagree with you Hermes. What I wrote above is the way I see things evolving, and parts of them are not my personal preferences.You may notice that I ended up saying that "the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments". This however does NOT mean we will have a solution, it may mean de facto partition for ever, or complete replacement of the Kibrislis by settlers.

I am a traditional anti-communist, but on the other looking at Christofias handling of the CYprob so far, I would say he did an excellent job and he was and still is a blessing for us. And I do hope that the Turks come to their senses and accept his proposals so that we have a solution. This is our No1 PRIORITY, is it not?

May I remind you that with Papadopoulos the "hero" on power, we were just one step away from recognition of the occupied.

Pyrpolizer,

My comments were about the danger, as I see it, of a weakened President like Christofias attempting to sell a solution to the GCs. No-one trusts him so how on earth will he get the backing of the people? So many are already suspicious of the idea of a rotating Presidency and the 50,000 settlers while nothing has been offered from the other side by way of concession. All we have seen instead is a hardening of the Turkish attitude and a withdrawal from agreed positions. The Turks undermine the talks and we are the ones hanging in because we don't want to be seen as the ones getting the blame.

The danger is that Christofias agrees to a poor plan to salvage his reputation. Which the people then reject in a referendum. This would be a disaster. Even a workable plan with difficult compromises would still need people to see past their current distrust of Christofias. I just cannot see how Christofias can sell the people anything.

All this is speculation. The likelihood is that the Turks are committed to sabotaging the talks, digging in and the situation carries on. It looks to me like the Turks have never got over the failure of the Annan Plan. And they are not going to relinquish the island as part of a deal that would allow the island to be free and independent. In other words, they won't leave until the cost is too great for them to bear.

Ok fair enough.Just a few comments on the highlighted part: His work on the Cyprob is highly appreciated from the vast majority of Kypreoi living abroad. It is only internally that they want to eat him lahano, taking advantage of events of pure bad luck. I watched him carefully all these years, I don't think he is the kind of person who would ever agree to a poor plan for any reason whatsoever, let aside his own reputation. Just compare how others we trusted have worked behind our backs to bring us the Anan Plan. Jesus, Clerides even asked for 16 months more on Presidency to seal it up for us!!!

[Pyrpolizer]

We are almost at the point where the cost for Turkey is getting too much to bear. Cyprus is turning into a series of defeats for Turkey.

The first was the failure of the Annan plan, which they caused in no small way with their stubborn commitment to dissolution of the RoC and not accepting a fair settlement.

The second defeat was the acceptance of the RoC in the EU.

THe third is the rejection by the international community of their positions on the oil and gass issue. Others have much bigger interests and given the choice between dealing with Cypriots and dealing with Turks they would take Cypriots any time. We are much easier to deal with.

The fourth and biggest defeat, which is self caused, is their rush to reject the Cyprus presidency of the EU. It is a temporary and mostly ceremonial procedure of the EU. The Turks turned it into a pre lost battle before it even started. There is no way the EU will yield on this one. It is a painless way for the EU to show some backbone, and they will not let it go unexploited.

Under the Erdo Davut duo Turkey cannot put a foot right. Let us hope they stay in power forever.

I am afraid they are so stupid Nikitas, that not only the cost should be be too much to bear, but they also want to have real earning on top of it. They are like a gambler who's lost 1 million, they give him his money back and he won't leave unless they give him 100K more on top of it.

[boomerang]

another diplomatic defeat was the legitimization of the gaza blockade as per the palmer report...turkey went from stop the blockade to now the blockade being legit...

[repulsewarrior]

Dear Mr. Ki-Moon,

My hope is that you will consider the value of my thinking now that a way ahead will be proposed that serves a family far bigger than "Greek" or "Turk". My hope is that you will not forget the rest of us who place Universal Principals first. The world needs a definition for Bicommunal, and now the word Bizonal. At 55, I have spent the greater part of my life remembering (Cyprus), not to forget, and to act accordingly. With the revolution of the Information Age, I beg you to google, or blogspot, repulsewarrior; that's me.

Quote:
That federation would comprise a federal government with a single international personality, along with a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state, which would be of equal status.

...this much we know so far.

(at least) three governing bodies must exist for this agreement to fructify Identities for each.

In my Cyprus, the Bicommunal Bizonal Federation is defined by one Sovereign State representing me as an Individual, while there exists for these People (like me), as Persons, National Assemblies with Territorial Jurisdictions, to provide for them as Majorities a means to sustain this identity as well.

In my Cyprus, the Green Line becomes a frontier, no longer a border, because (at least for some), the displaced return as they left, as Communities. Enclaves, which pocket the whole island, offers this opportunity to Individuals by having real choices as Persons (, that will include some of the newly displaced,), with the possibility of more than two "zones" (including the needs of the Maronite and Armenian communities, Sovereignty never being a question), without tearing the fabric of the living around them, respectful to the reciprocal nature of their recognition for the special needs of the Minorities amongst them, inclusive because the diversity of each society (Turkish and Greek mostly) will expand island wide.

Cypriots rely on your abilities to remember that they may be the few in a wider complexity of the Problem, they, they need Good Governance based on the Principals of Free Association, Free Expression, Free Movement, and a Rule of Law.

Cyprus is an island. After all, it has never been but one, its Heritance dates back to the beginnings of Mankind, this wealth which is Humanity's cannot be dismissed, either.

Deciding as you will this July (now October), consider this: <<Would Mr. Eroglu recognise Mr. Christofias as President of the Republic, if, Greeks as Persons were to found an equal form of self-representation as his own, separate from the Federal Government, but as distinctive (“Greek first, Turkish first”) in its leadership.>>, lol.

Most Warmly, I Prey you have Good Guidance.

...thanks, halil.

your comments, as well as the other members, are appreciated.

(and if this is racist, i'd like to know how)

[repulsewarrior]

...can someone tell me what (else) happened at this meeting; i read one statement made by Sener Levent.

...halil?

...bill?

...anybody?

[halil]

...can someone tell me what (else) happened at this meeting; i read one statement made by Sener Levent.

...halil?

...bill?

...anybody?

There was a great interest for this meeting from the north public. conferance saloon was full up with TC's .
Downer very basicly said;
The UN Security Council has identified the model for Cyprus which is the bicommunal, bizonal federation ......a bi-zonal federal solution based on political equality and a single international identity with 2 states. The federal government will have a specific set of powers which will be embodied in the constitution like the economy, the external relations, defance, Communication, Underground sources and so on......
The Security Council has passed resolutions since 1977 for bizonal, biocommunal federation.
and this federation will be different than the present models which are existing now....it will be Cypriot model....the issue of guarantor states could be solved only by a quintet meeting, including the two parties in Cyprus, Turkey, Greece and Britain.
When both sides leadership agreed than there will be referandom as long they don't say they are ready there will not be......
he pointed out last 3 leaders achieved lots off things comparing the others.(Talat+Christofias+Eroglu) only difficult parts of the negotiations are property and guarantees ......

[halil]

...can someone tell me what (else) happened at this meeting; i read one statement made by Sener Levent.

...halil?

...bill?

...anybody?

There was a great interest for this meeting from the north public. conferance saloon was full up with TC's .
Downer very basicly said;
The UN Security Council has identified the model for Cyprus which is the bicommunal, bizonal federation ......a bi-zonal federal solution based on political equality and a single international identity with 2 states. The federal government will have a specific set of powers which will be embodied in the constitution like the economy, the external relations, defance, Communication, Underground sources and so on......
The Security Council has passed resolutions since 1977 for bizonal, biocommunal federation.
and this federation will be different than the present models which are existing now....it will be Cypriot model....the issue of guarantor states could be solved only by a quintet meeting, including the two parties in Cyprus, Turkey, Greece and Britain.
When both sides leadership agreed than there will be referandom as long they don't say they are ready there will not be......
he pointed out last 3 leaders achieved lots off things comparing the others.(Talat+Christofias+Eroglu) only difficult parts of the negotiations are property and guarantees ......

My notes from Downer speeches............

Established a federal system in Cyprus will not be anything different in your life. Cyprus will be a part of the EU. issues related to daily life will be the responsibility of the constituent states. U.S., Canada, Australia, germany, switzerland, belgium, countries with federal systems, such as the model I am not saying for you.
two sides agreed that a bi-zonal bi-communal federation, predicted, the limited powers of the creation of a structure………….powers in the constitution to be determined. Under this structure, the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot constituent states shall take place.
property price to be paid on a day….this important issue should be negotiated……….if they negotiate….will agree………..unable to agree the problem to be solved through the real estate commission ……for it will need a lot of money………….As a matter of re-uniting the island failed….economic reflection will be very heavy………..

Downer asked the participants to assist the federal solution and to be more active for the solution……

[humanist]

well lets see if the TC's will agree on equality for all citizens