Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Towards a federal solution – what does this mean to you.”
Public Presentation/Discussion with the SASG Mr. A. Downer

Public discussion of Mr. Alexander Downer Special Advisor of Secretary General, with collaboration of the ENGAGE – Do Your Part for Peace project.

Where:
The Dedeman Olive Tree Holiday Village, Çatalköy, Kyrenia

When:
17 October Tuesday...................
From 19:30 to 21:00

Target Audience:
Key people, politicians, local authorities, academics, educators, CSOs, the wider public, media

For more information please contact:
Project Managers: Nicholas Papachrysostomou, [email protected], +357 22 875099/ Jale Canlibalik , [email protected], +90 392 2272234
Communications Officers: Giorgos Andriotis, [email protected], +357 22 875099
/Burcu Mahmutoğlu, [email protected], +90 392 2277234

I will go there to listen .............

The same discussion was organized in Larnaca last week. It ended with the Kypreoi shouting and fighting each other, the Mayor of Larnaca abandoning the hall, and Downer just sitting there and not understanding a world.
The truth is the Kypreoi don't know what a BBF is, and by the way a BBF is not a Federal system like the US. It is a segregation system my it's own definition.

In my opinion soon after Christofias is gone in about 1 1/2 years, the new President will denounce one after another all concessions made up by the GC side over the years. a)territory 25%?? --> No more than 18% b)50K settlers-->no more than those who got married with Kibrislis c)BBF?? --> No true Federation only d) Properties? --> hmmm there has been no concession so far, so it will stay the same and finally e)return of Varoshia as per UN resolutions before he would even accept to sit on the negotiating table.
Oh I forgot: and for each and every statement of Erdogan or Eroglu for no return of this no return of that, one more denouncing from the GC side.

In the end the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments. End of story.

[bill cobbett]

Towards a federal solution – what does this mean to you.”
Public Presentation/Discussion with the SASG Mr. A. Downer

Public discussion of Mr. Alexander Downer Special Advisor of Secretary General, with collaboration of the ENGAGE – Do Your Part for Peace project.

Where:
The Dedeman Olive Tree Holiday Village, Çatalköy, Kyrenia

When:
17 October Tuesday...................
From 19:30 to 21:00

Target Audience:
Key people, politicians, local authorities, academics, educators, CSOs, the wider public, media

For more information please contact:
Project Managers: Nicholas Papachrysostomou, [email protected], +357 22 875099/ Jale Canlibalik , [email protected], +90 392 2272234
Communications Officers: Giorgos Andriotis, [email protected], +357 22 875099
/Burcu Mahmutoğlu, [email protected], +90 392 2277234

I will go there to listen .............

The same discussion was organized in Larnaca last week. It ended with the Kypreoi shouting and fighting each other, the Mayor of Larnaca abandoning the hall, and Downer just sitting there and not understanding a world.
The truth is the Kypreoi don't know what a BBF is, and by the way a BBF is not a Federal system like the US. It is a segregation system my it's own definition.

In my opinion soon after Christofias is gone in about 1 1/2 years, the new President will denounce one after another all concessions made up by the GC side over the years. a)territory 25%?? --> No more than 18% b)50K settlers-->no more than those who got married with Kibrislis c)BBF?? --> No true Federation only d) Properties? --> hmmm there has been no concession so far, so it will stay the same and finally e)return of Varoshia as per UN resolutions before he would even accept to sit on the negotiating table.
Oh I forgot: and for each and every statement of Erdogan or Eroglu for no return of this no return of that, one more denouncing from the GC side.

In the end the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments. End of story.

Yes, it's very misleading, and very disingenuous for Mr Downer to publicise these evenings as discussions on "a federal system" in isolation from bi-zonal and bi-communal. A CY BBF will be very, very different from any normal federal system.

[Hermes]

In my opinion soon after Christofias is gone in about 1 1/2 years, the new President will denounce one after another all concessions made up by the GC side over the years. a)territory 25%?? --> No more than 18% b)50K settlers-->no more than those who got married with Kibrislis c)BBF?? --> No true Federation only d) Properties? --> hmmm there has been no concession so far, so it will stay the same and finally e)return of Varoshia as per UN resolutions before he would even accept to sit on the negotiating table.
Oh I forgot: and for each and every statement of Erdogan or Eroglu for no return of this no return of that, one more denouncing from the GC side.

In the end the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments. End of story.

The danger is that the Turks come to their senses and accept Christofias' proposals. Christofias then announces he's got a great solution which he wants to put to a referendum! Can you imagine the chaos that would follow?

Christofias is a dangerous man at the present. He needs a solution that would salvage his reputation. But his loss of credibility means that he cannot hope to sell a solution to the GCs. He is in danger of dragging the country down with him. Our only hope is that Turkey is too stupid to see this and gives us the time to see the back of Christofias...

[wyoming cowboy]

if there is a concession that turkey just made and christofias takes the bone and tries to run with it, it will mean disaster, politically, no self respecting Greek cyp will listen to christofias peasant talk and will reject it

[halil]

What year are we talking about, as this coming Tuesday is 18th October !!!!

Yes you are correct .....Tuesday is 18 october...i am getting old mate..........nice to hear from you again. I hope u are all keeping well. Pls give my best regards to our Pub friends too....

[Pyrpolizer]

In my opinion soon after Christofias is gone in about 1 1/2 years, the new President will denounce one after another all concessions made up by the GC side over the years. a)territory 25%?? --> No more than 18% b)50K settlers-->no more than those who got married with Kibrislis c)BBF?? --> No true Federation only d) Properties? --> hmmm there has been no concession so far, so it will stay the same and finally e)return of Varoshia as per UN resolutions before he would even accept to sit on the negotiating table.
Oh I forgot: and for each and every statement of Erdogan or Eroglu for no return of this no return of that, one more denouncing from the GC side.

In the end the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments. End of story.

The danger is that the Turks come to their senses and accept Christofias' proposals. Christofias then announces he's got a great solution which he wants to put to a referendum! Can you imagine the chaos that would follow?

Christofias is a dangerous man at the present. He needs a solution that would salvage his reputation. But his loss of credibility means that he cannot hope to sell a solution to the GCs. He is in danger of dragging the country down with him. Our only hope is that Turkey is too stupid to see this and gives us the time to see the back of Christofias...

This is one of the few times I have to disagree with you Hermes. What I wrote above is the way I see things evolving, and parts of them are not my personal preferences.You may notice that I ended up saying that "the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments". This however does NOT mean we will have a solution, it may mean de facto partition for ever, or complete replacement of the Kibrislis by settlers.

I am a traditional anti-communist, but on the other looking at Christofias handling of the CYprob so far, I would say he did an excellent job and he was and still is a blessing for us. And I do hope that the Turks come to their senses and accept his proposals so that we have a solution. This is our No1 PRIORITY, is it not?

May I remind you that with Papadopoulos the "hero" on power, we were just one step away from recognition of the occupied.

[Get Real!]

I am a traditional anti-communist, but on the other looking at Christofias handling of the CYprob so far, I would say he did an excellent job and he was and still is a blessing for us. And I do hope that the Turks come to their senses and accept his proposals so that we have a solution. This is our No1 PRIORITY, is it not?

May I remind you that with Papadopoulos the "hero" on power, we were just one step away from recognition of the occupied.

I don’t know how you arrive at these conclusions but I do know they’re not worth correcting!

[humanist]

Downer is not to be trusted. I phoned the Liberal party once to state my views on the invasion of Iraq. Their response was "where do you come from"/ Because I have an accent. They will not accept anyone as Australian unless your a descendent of the British convicts.

[Hermes]

In my opinion soon after Christofias is gone in about 1 1/2 years, the new President will denounce one after another all concessions made up by the GC side over the years. a)territory 25%?? --> No more than 18% b)50K settlers-->no more than those who got married with Kibrislis c)BBF?? --> No true Federation only d) Properties? --> hmmm there has been no concession so far, so it will stay the same and finally e)return of Varoshia as per UN resolutions before he would even accept to sit on the negotiating table.
Oh I forgot: and for each and every statement of Erdogan or Eroglu for no return of this no return of that, one more denouncing from the GC side.

In the end the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments. End of story.

The danger is that the Turks come to their senses and accept Christofias' proposals. Christofias then announces he's got a great solution which he wants to put to a referendum! Can you imagine the chaos that would follow?

Christofias is a dangerous man at the present. He needs a solution that would salvage his reputation. But his loss of credibility means that he cannot hope to sell a solution to the GCs. He is in danger of dragging the country down with him. Our only hope is that Turkey is too stupid to see this and gives us the time to see the back of Christofias...

This is one of the few times I have to disagree with you Hermes. What I wrote above is the way I see things evolving, and parts of them are not my personal preferences.You may notice that I ended up saying that "the only option that will be left will be the return to the Roc system with amendments". This however does NOT mean we will have a solution, it may mean de facto partition for ever, or complete replacement of the Kibrislis by settlers.

I am a traditional anti-communist, but on the other looking at Christofias handling of the CYprob so far, I would say he did an excellent job and he was and still is a blessing for us. And I do hope that the Turks come to their senses and accept his proposals so that we have a solution. This is our No1 PRIORITY, is it not?

May I remind you that with Papadopoulos the "hero" on power, we were just one step away from recognition of the occupied.

Pyrpolizer,

My comments were about the danger, as I see it, of a weakened President like Christofias attempting to sell a solution to the GCs. No-one trusts him so how on earth will he get the backing of the people? So many are already suspicious of the idea of a rotating Presidency and the 50,000 settlers while nothing has been offered from the other side by way of concession. All we have seen instead is a hardening of the Turkish attitude and a withdrawal from agreed positions. The Turks undermine the talks and we are the ones hanging in because we don't want to be seen as the ones getting the blame.

The danger is that Christofias agrees to a poor plan to salvage his reputation. Which the people then reject in a referendum. This would be a disaster. Even a workable plan with difficult compromises would still need people to see past their current distrust of Christofias. I just cannot see how Christofias can sell the people anything.

All this is speculation. The likelihood is that the Turks are committed to sabotaging the talks, digging in and the situation carries on. It looks to me like the Turks have never got over the failure of the Annan Plan. And they are not going to relinquish the island as part of a deal that would allow the island to be free and independent. In other words, they won't leave until the cost is too great for them to bear.

[Nikitas]

We are almost at the point where the cost for Turkey is getting too much to bear. Cyprus is turning into a series of defeats for Turkey.

The first was the failure of the Annan plan, which they caused in no small way with their stubborn commitment to dissolution of the RoC and not accepting a fair settlement.

The second defeat was the acceptance of the RoC in the EU.

THe third is the rejection by the international community of their positions on the oil and gass issue. Others have much bigger interests and given the choice between dealing with Cypriots and dealing with Turks they would take Cypriots any time. We are much easier to deal with.

The fourth and biggest defeat, which is self caused, is their rush to reject the Cyprus presidency of the EU. It is a temporary and mostly ceremonial procedure of the EU. The Turks turned it into a pre lost battle before it even started. There is no way the EU will yield on this one. It is a painless way for the EU to show some backbone, and they will not let it go unexploited.

Under the Erdo Davut duo Turkey cannot put a foot right. Let us hope they stay in power forever.