Cyprus-Forum.com

[AWE]

And unfortunately the settlers will vote on any plan, as they did on AP4, and UN/EU et al can't say they won't be allowed to given this precedent. As a unity state and full partition are not on the cards, a BBF is the only answer so as such the RoC/TRNC will have to find a solution that also meets the concerns of the 'electorate' of the north as well as the south. The only alternative is to drive forward Turkey's EU membership so that it will leave the north, as a precondition of membership, and the settlers are then counted as EU nationals so have the same rights as any EU national in the RoC.

This is being discussed as part of the ongoing peace talks. Eroglu is proposing unlimited settlers, the RoC will be on the opposite side of the spectrum. If what you say is true, and if I was Erdogan I would 'Cycle' all Turks from the mainland through the TRNC so they can get TRNC citizenship. As a byproduct of a solution to the Cyprus problem, all Turks will be european citizens without Turkey having to qualify.

Impasse? You cant fit big square pegs in small round holes.

Impasse, maybe. Look at it form a settler position; they came to the TRNC to find a better life, wages are generally higher there than in Anatolia, now they are being told them must leave with nothing to show for it (ok some may be allowed to stay) - how will they vote?

Alternatively, offer 'no new TRNC citizens after X date can vote' but all before then become ROC nationals at the solution - now how will they vote?

In short, most TCs and the 50k or so settlers that were allowed to stay under AP4 will vote for unification, but those that get no benefit won't, so offer them a benefit and win their vote. ok there are governance, property, security issues but if the benefit is good enough they are not insurmountable at least where the electorate maybe concerned.

[B25]

And unfortunately the settlers will vote on any plan, as they did on AP4, and UN/EU et al can't say they won't be allowed to given this precedent. As a unity state and full partition are not on the cards, a BBF is the only answer so as such the RoC/TRNC will have to find a solution that also meets the concerns of the 'electorate' of the north as well as the south. The only alternative is to drive forward Turkey's EU membership so that it will leave the north, as a precondition of membership, and the settlers are then counted as EU nationals so have the same rights as any EU national in the RoC.

This is being discussed as part of the ongoing peace talks. Eroglu is proposing unlimited settlers, the RoC will be on the opposite side of the spectrum. If what you say is true, and if I was Erdogan I would 'Cycle' all Turks from the mainland through the TRNC so they can get TRNC citizenship. As a byproduct of a solution to the Cyprus problem, all Turks will be european citizens without Turkey having to qualify.

Impasse? You cant fit big square pegs in small round holes.

Impasse, maybe. Look at it form a settler position; they came to the TRNC to find a better life, wages are generally higher there than in Anatolia, now they are being told them must leave with nothing to show for it (ok some may be allowed to stay) - how will they vote?

Alternatively, offer 'no new TRNC citizens after X date can vote' but all before then become ROC nationals at the solution - now how will they vote?

In short, most TCs and the 50k or so settlers that were allowed to stay under AP4 will vote for unification, but those that get no benefit won't, so offer them a benefit and win their vote. ok there are governance, property, security issues but if the benefit is good enough they are not insurmountable at least where the electorate maybe concerned.

It's hardly surprising that a carpetsquatter comes to the rescue of the ILLEGAL ANATOLIAN GYPSIES. notice the word ILLEGAL. Now you want to give them voting rights FFS.

[Hermes]

In short, most TCs and the 50k or so settlers that were allowed to stay under AP4 will vote for unification, but those that get no benefit won't, so offer them a benefit and win their vote. ok there are governance, property, security issues but if the benefit is good enough they are not insurmountable at least where the electorate maybe concerned.

Who is giving them a vote? Why should they be allowed to vote in the first place? They were brought to the occupied areas as illegal colonisers to change the demographics of the island. They have no right to stay never mind have a say in the island's future. The only benefit they're entitled to is a ticket back to Anatolia. I'm sure Turkey can afford it...

[Maximus]

Impasse, maybe. Look at it form a settler position; they came to the TRNC to find a better life, wages are generally higher there than in Anatolia, now they are being told them must leave with nothing to show for it (ok some may be allowed to stay) - how will they vote?

All on the back of someone elses misery must we add, before these settlers arrived, 200K+ people were made refugees. They were told that they must leave and leave what was rightfully theirs behind and have nothing to show for it. 37 years later they are being told that they must accept this by those who created and added to the problem. How will they vote?

The settler should not have a say in anything. instead of Turkey compensating all the GC's, she could compensate all the settlers and move them back to turkey. at least, the money stays in the ccountry.

should Israeli move the settlers move out of palestine to make peace? should Israel leave palestine to make peace?

[AWE]

Hi B52,

I am not a carpet bagger - my father built a house near Bellapais in 68 and I have inherited it - I was living in Cyprus in 74, my sister and I went to a Greek speaking school, and evacuated on HMS Hermes.

Hi Hermes,

They, the settlers, have the vote in the north and this was acknowledged by them being allowed to vote in the AP4 referenda, this is not going to change and so any solution will have to address their concerns or be doomed. This is a political reality and I am sorry if the GC political class has sold the GCs another line.

Hi Max,

I understand the misery but this is compounded by not being able to go home - imagine a solution that allows settlers to stay and refugees to go home say degradations of the EU aquis pending certain conditions, when conditions are met the refugees go home, currently they are not and not about to.

Convince the electorate in the north, all sections of it, that they have more to gain by a solution than not and see how that affects the negotiations i.e. allow any TRNC ID card holder/driving license to go south "you can be part of this, and we are about to strike oil don't you know?', remember the EU, UN et al aren't going to solve the Cyprob for you - you have to do it yourself(s). So undermine Turkey's hold on the north by offering a better deal, the TCs are already on side so are the to stay settlers, all you need now are enough of the rest make a majority. And don't give me that 'this is bribing them' talk, politicians the world over bribe electorates with better deals all the time.

[Piratis]

AWE, there will be no solution via negotiations. What the TCs can gain from a fair and just solution is to be equal Cypriot citizens with whatever benefits and responsibilities that entails. Since this is apparently not good enough for TCs, no peaceful solution will ever be found. We are not going to accept some "solution" which is bad for us just so it will be acceptable to the TCs. Better no solution than a bad solution.

The "electorate" in the north can be as big as Turkey wants it to be. If we legitimize those 50.000 settlers by treating them as TCs, then another 150.000 Settlers will be given the so called citizenship of the pseudo state. What are we going to do next? Legitimize those as well? Or even worst they would be automatically legitimized? Not to mention that doing such thing will make north Cyprus an even more attractive destination for Turks which will result in an even greater number coming to Cyprus. Sorry, but your logic is flawed.

One more point: If the TCs are convinced then the Settlers don't need to. All the TCs have to do is to agree with us that the Settlers should have no say about the solution of the Cyprus problem. Both EU and UN will accept this if it is agreed by GCs and TCs regardless of any precedence.

Obviously the TCs will not agree to this because they are too greedy to accept a fair solution, which is why they need Turkey to back them on their unfair demands, which is why they are indebted to Turkey, which is in turn why a peaceful solution is not possible.

[Maximus]

Hi Max,

I understand the misery but this is compounded by not being able to go home - imagine a solution that allows settlers to stay and refugees to go home say degradations of the EU aquis pending certain conditions, when conditions are met the refugees go home, currently they are not and not about to
.

How can the settlers stay and the refugees go home at the same time?

How is this compatible with a territorial adjustment?

How are all the settlers going to be accommodated when the living space in the Turkish Cypriots zone will become even tighter?

why wouldnt the settlers take personal responsibility for any consequences from their choice to invest in an occupied and illegal territory?

There are no gaurantees associated with the words opportunity or investment and the misery is compounded because some have built lives on the
oppression of others. The oppressors continue the oppression by force and emposed conditions based upon false rights. In this way the problem is sustained.

[Maximus]

Convince the electorate in the north, all sections of it, that they have more to gain by a solution than not and see how that affects the negotiations

How can you convice the marority of the electorate in the North who have a vested interest that the vast majoity of them have to go? Its not possible,

this needs to be reciprocated, how can the electorate in the North convince all the electorate in the south that their rights in Cyprus surpass the rights of the majority Cypriots? its not possible.

there is too much compromising going on and not enough resolve based around compatibility.

[humanist]

They will not like it. But it doesn't matter to them. There is one rule for the Turks and another for the rest

[AWE]

Hi All,

Sorry about the late reply time zones, work, and rugby got in the way.

I need to be clear - I want to see a solution to the Cyprob but fear that some with the attitude that 'a bad solution is worse than no solution' are dooming this to 'no solution'.

What price is the RoC willing to pay for a solution?

I know many will say 'why should we pay we are the wronged party' so call it a bribe, what will the RoC bribe the settlers with to win their support in a referenda? After all if they have nothing to gain from a BBF, in whatever form it will take, then they will not vote for it. Of course the question can be reversed what are the refugees will to do to have a chance of going home? But perhaps that is the wrong question, maybe it should be what is the RoC public willing to do to find a solution?

If the answer is nothing then there will be no solution, or the RoC could try to out bid Turkey and win the settler vote in any referenda, and they will get to vote like it or not. So think beyond the normal Cyprob definition and ask what can the RoC offer that Turkey cannot?

I know may feel the a perfect solution is about to happen, as it has been for 35 years now, but I doubt it. So as a BBF is the only solution the RoC needs to influence the electorate in the north directly and so force the TRNC leadership to find a solution their voter want. If the TCs are 100k but the population is 250-300k what are you going to offer the non-TC population? Here is an idea 'EU citizenship or EUR 100k per household to leave' on the condition that the suspensions to the EU aquis are only for the transition period.

The RoC is about to have a gas fired economy so should be able to afford, at worst, EUR 20 billion over say 10 years, you might be able to get the EU to part fund this as well. I know 'why should we pay this is?' but that leads to 'how much do you want a solution?'.

It is always easier to do nothing, blame the other, or outsiders, than find answers - Instead of shouting 'something must be done' why not do something?

If you hold out for a 'perfect solution' and the gas money comes then expect no solution as the remaining TCs in the north move south.