Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

You cannot punish people collectively Maximus. Only Hitler did that.
And guilty persons exist among the Kypreoi too.

As for your wish for them all to take their RoC cards and go away, have you thought of the consequences?

[Maximus]

You cannot punish people collectively Maximus. Only Hitler did that.
And guilty persons exist among the Kypreoi too.

As for your wish for them all to take their RoC cards and go away, have you thought of the consequences?

Its my error, I was not clear enough. The TC's as a community and citizens cannot be punished collectively, sure. but their leadership can be tried individually, for perverting the course of justice. do you think they have and do you think that they should be tried?

its not my wish for the TC's to leave Cyprus, however you are saying that it is their dream. If thats the case then why dont they leave? it's not hard. What are the consequences if they all leave the occupied areas?

[boomerang]

pyro i beg to differ with you...lets look at what halil said...

the annan plan gave him and his family everything he wanted, and he is still sore today for not getting it, by saying the gcs do not want to share...but for halil to get everything he wanted, means others missed out on what they wanted...

further more halil is not happy with the 37% stealing, now he is saying he has a stake in the sea south of the island, and in no way close to their declared country...what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine mentality...

look at the letter they send to the UNSC, they insist the UN drop all resolutions against them and endorse a new one, de registering the ROC...

he wants his cake and he was to eat it aswell...

oh and bon voyage to halil's daughter...

But I haven't spoken for halil in particular Boomers!I spoke for the Kibrislis in general.

Halil's brains are a Bougainvillea flower, do you know why?

yes i know you did not speak about halil in particular, but from what he personally said, i gather that to be the general feelings amongst tcs, a sense of we had been betrayed, read not sharing...a rather simplistic view in my opinion...this explains your bougainvillea flower analogy...a lot of grafting is required to rid the thorns...

this begs another question as to, have the tcs really, ever understood the prediciment they find themselves in?...or are they of the belief the whole wide world is conspiring against them?...

the way i see it, they are crumbling...it starteed with their building sector, which they had no problem exploiting other peoples properties...but the gas business has forever changed the cause of history...they went from a position of strength the last 37 years to now turkey and themselves in a position of weakness...lets leave the turkey rattling out of it...turkey has been cornered in all this...ultimatums and bravado no longer works, unless you are the US, when it comes to commerce and control of hydrocarbons...the line in the sand is indeed clear...the US went to war 2 times, iraq and recently libya, to gain control, and in no way known the roc hydrocarbons are any exception to that...now enter the EU...they are not going to allow turkey/tcs to screw up one of the biggest finds the last 10 years when it can feed europe the next 50 years...and we are talking just block 12...how about the other blocks...if all this is materialised, the roc will be powering the EU with gas and with money...now what kind of slack the tcs/turks are going to get out of all this?...as it stands now the only available tcs option is amendments to the roc constitution...as i said the game has shifted...

have the tcs thought of the consequences in all this?...not really...they are being led by turkey by turkey....turkey new she was not going to get her own way on the roc EEZ, so she opted for military armaments instead, but in the mean time the tcs got nothing...

in the mean time lets rejoice what the turks are feeding the tcs...

Davutoğlu said Turkey’s position on this is very clear: It is against the international law to unilaterally start drilling activities without completing UN-mediated peace talks between Turkish and Greek Cypriots.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-259001-davutoglu-all-resources-of-island-belong-to-all-cypriots.html

“EU countries must stop the Greek Cypriots’ refusal to open the energy chapter,” Bağış told reporters during a meeting with the French Ambassador to Turkey Laurent Bili.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-258987-eu-should-pressure-greek-cyprus-on-energy.html

and everynow and then you get someone to report on the unreported...

The fact that the ship is so old and, more importantly, that it has not been upgraded to meet today's technological standards, has drawn criticism in Turkey.

Similarly, in the case of the Piri Reis seismic research ship, it has recently been discovered that Turkey has neither modernized the vessel, nor replaced it with a new one.

On the other hand, we have discovered from the gas and oil exploration crisis with the Greek Cypriots that the seismic research ship Piri Reis dispatched to the eastern Mediterranean to create fear and deter the Greek Cypriots from a fait accompli has not been upgraded with advanced technology.

http://www.todayszaman.com/columnist-258261-turkeys-ill-advised-arms-buying-policy.html

so in other words the seismic tests are just farts, annoying the shit out of the surrounding crustaceans...but the tcs are fed a different story...

the game has been lost and the tcs better start looking out for themselves, or maybe all this complacency has turn them it to eunuchs...no ones knows the bounds of irrational minds...they declare a state, via ethnic cleansing with all the the trimmings of '"borders"...signing agreements with turkey with all sorts of bullshit, read jokes to most people and now they are staking a claim in waters far away as a right as cypriots...how can anyone take them serious is beyond belief...

on a sidenote, have the turks informed the tcs there is nothing they can do and all this is posturing?...

so yes the tcs are very greedy...not all but a great majority of them, including halil that supports all natural resources belong to all cypriots...I am fine with this notion, but and there is a big but that halil and all halil minded people, think it's their god given right to ethnically cleanse population, hold them to ransom the last 37 years, and not only claim resources on top but underneath as well...doesn't really this mentally endorses the notion, what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine...also they forget the roc will never give the north any money...the money, sharing with tcs will be done at the roc...

so yes once again the tcs are greedy...and halil can rejoice in the thought of turning turks into new tcs...a regular samarian...

[boomerang]

also someone better remind the tcs, there is a new reality on the ground that needs to be taken into context with solving the cyprob...as they keep on reminding us...

i just do not feel pres x is doing enough in these talks...he is rather led in making reactionary comments that have far reaching future consequences...

the best course for cyprus is for the president to resign and early elections in Jan-Feb slowing down the unification pace till we have a clearer picture on the hydrocarbons and getting closer to the EU presidency...this will further expose and corner turkey in many ways...this will enrage the tcs, but this action will also be beneficial to them in many ways...

the largerest trump card the roc is currently holding is another half a dozen blocks that contain vast amounts of hydrocarbons...block 12 is just the start...now you know why the turks/tcs are screaming...

[Pyrpolizer]

Totally agree with you boomers in fact I already told halil this in my own words:
"as it stands now the only available tcs option is amendments to the roc constitution."

As for this:
"he best course for cyprus is for the president to resign and early elections in Jan-Feb slowing down the unification pace till we have a clearer picture on the hydrocarbons and getting closer to the EU presidency.."

President Christofias is indeed under extreme pressure to resign, in fact last night they announced that they will vote for his resignation at the Parliament. The excuse is because of his responsibility for the blast at Mari and the catastrophe and deaths it resulted to.The real reason actually is because of the way he handles the Cyprob. Things have changed and Christofias got trapped in old parameters. The best he can do is to resign so that a new President can get rid of all those consentions he's made. With Eroglu on power not only we are getting nowhere we run the risk with Christofias to give in more.

[Pyrpolizer]

You cannot punish people collectively Maximus. Only Hitler did that.
And guilty persons exist among the Kypreoi too.

As for your wish for them all to take their RoC cards and go away, have you thought of the consequences?

Its my error, I was not clear enough. The TC's as a community and citizens cannot be punished collectively, sure. but their leadership can be tried individually, for perverting the course of justice. do you think they have and do you think that they should be tried?

its not my wish for the TC's to leave Cyprus, however you are saying that it is their dream. If thats the case then why dont they leave? it's not hard. What are the consequences if they all leave the occupied areas?

Yes we should of start with Makarios, Grivas,and soon after he dies with Denktash LOL just to mention a few names.The list is endless for both sides.

Yes I said that their dream NOW for a better future is to leave Cyprus. Before the finding of gas reserves they had hopes for a better future with a solution as they saw it fair. Now the only solution availble is the return to the RoC with amendment to the constitution.

The consequences for the Kypreoi, if they leave is that they will be replaced by settlers. Hence in any solution we will have to share Cyprus with thousands of foreign settlers, and be sure the EU will not allow us to send most of them away. Settlers acquire human rights by just staying here, and those rights are above any other rights.In fact it is very unlikely to be able to send anyone away if he was born here, or stayed here for too long or separate him from his family if he has children born here. The SETTLERS ISSUE together with the PROPERTIES ISSUE IS and WAS the way Turkey planned for the Cyprus problem to never be solved, or if solved to cause even more problems.

[Maximus]

The consequences for the Kypreoi, if they leave is that they will be replaced by settlers. Hence in any solution we will have to share Cyprus with thousands of foreign settlers, and be sure the EU will not allow us to send most of them away. Settlers acquire human rights by just staying here, and those rights are above any other rights.In fact it is very unlikely to be able to send anyone away if he was born here, or stayed here for too long or separate him from his family if he has children born here. The SETTLERS ISSUE together with the PROPERTIES ISSUE IS and WAS the way Turkey planned for the Cyprus problem to never be solved, or if solved to cause even more problems.

I can agree to a certain extent, the property and settlers issue are linked. There is some benefit for the TC economy, if some settlers stay but surely a fairer territorial adjustment will ultimately dictate what is reasonable in terms of accommodating them. don't forget that much of the productivity in the occupied areas has to be subsidized and a greater population can be detrimental to the economy of Cyprus as a whole. (A higher unemployment rate comes to mind, the TRNC has a HUGE civil service.)

where do those who had their rights initially violated fit into the grand scheme of things? Given others have had their rights violated in the first instance, I don't think it is right that the rights of settlers to be the dominant factor in this regard. (transferring population, settlers = war crime, NO?)

This is also true for those TC's who lost property in the south but on balance, the net amount of GC's who lost is much more significant.

The consequences for the Kypreoi, if they leave is that they will be replaced by settlers.

I don't see this as a greater consequence for the GC's as it is a consequence for the TC's in my opinion. on the contrary, if there are no recorded TC's left in the occupied, how can Turkey continue to justify the occupation when she cant use the TC's as an excuse any longer?. There will not be any TC's, just mainland Turks continuing the occupation.