Cyprus-Forum.com

[Capt J Sparrow]

In Turkey, there are 20 million Kurds. They are a larger minority than the TCs in Cyprus.

BBF sounds quite good, with the correct content.

Kikapu wrote:

BBF now to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles,

But is Turkey willing to accept such a thing. Not likely.

become equal citizens as anyone else in the country without any special privileges given to any one ethnic group

Need to be careful with this......

Will Turkey accept a BBF in Turkey with a Kurdish constituent state? We are practically talking about a racist state of affairs with separate development between 2 "racial" groups, similar to South Africa's Apartheid....But it can work if the land distribution is equitable, and if the Federated State bases itself on EU principles.

If that can't be achieved, then there will not be a solution until something drastic happens which will happen eventually, causing Turkey to withdraw.

[Kikapu]

In Turkey, there are 20 million Kurds. They are a larger minority than the TCs in Cyprus.

BBF sounds quite good, with the correct content.

Kikapu wrote:

BBF now to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles,

But is Turkey willing to accept such a thing. Not likely.

become equal citizens as anyone else in the country without any special privileges given to any one ethnic group

Need to be careful with this......

Will Turkey accept a BBF in Turkey with a Kurdish constituent state? We are practically talking about a racist state of affairs with separate development between 2 "racial" groups, similar to South Africa's Apartheid....But it can work if the land distribution is equitable, and if the Federated State bases itself on EU principles.

If that can't be achieved, then there will not be a solution until something drastic happens which will happen eventually, causing Turkey to withdraw.

There is an agreement on the table for a BBF agreed by the TCs and the GCs in the late 70's, so lets leave Turkey and the Kurds out for a minute. Naturally, BBF will need to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles, as well as proportionate territorial adjustments based on Cypriot population in each of the states..

A True Federation USA style, I do not see the concerns for Cyprus becoming a "We are practically talking about a racist state of affairs with separate development between 2 "racial" groups, similar to South Africa's Apartheid.."

[Capt J Sparrow]

In Turkey, there are 20 million Kurds. They are a larger minority than the TCs in Cyprus.

BBF sounds quite good, with the correct content.

Kikapu wrote:

BBF now to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles,

But is Turkey willing to accept such a thing. Not likely.

become equal citizens as anyone else in the country without any special privileges given to any one ethnic group

Need to be careful with this......

Will Turkey accept a BBF in Turkey with a Kurdish constituent state? We are practically talking about a racist state of affairs with separate development between 2 "racial" groups, similar to South Africa's Apartheid....But it can work if the land distribution is equitable, and if the Federated State bases itself on EU principles.

If that can't be achieved, then there will not be a solution until something drastic happens which will happen eventually, causing Turkey to withdraw.

There is an agreement on the table for a BBF agreed by the TCs and the GCs in the late 70's, so lets leave Turkey and the Kurds out for a minute. Naturally, BBF will need to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles, as well as proportionate territorial adjustments based on Cypriot population in each of the states..

A True Federation USA style, I do not see the concerns for Cyprus becoming a "We are practically talking about a racist state of affairs with separate development between 2 "racial" groups, similar to South Africa's Apartheid.."

A True Federation USA style means freedom of movement, and equal political and property rights.

The racist state of affairs is what Turkey is trying to achieve which we can't accept (a la Annan Plan/bbc).

[Piratis]

Is this the shift in the balance of power you were waiting for Piratis? And, I suppose, now that you are flying the flag of the Jewish state, we should vote against the recognition of an independent Palestine state and of course, we should lend our weight behind the tyrant of Syria, now that Turkey is threatening Syria with sanctions. Do you remember someone who constantly wrote about principles and international justice?

I support the same principles today as I always did and I wish that every nation would get what it deserves. At the same time I am Cypriot and I care most for my own country than Palestine, Syria or Kurdistan (why do you always forget about this one?). I didn't fly the flag of any Jewish state but I did notice many Palestinians waving the Turkish flag not so long ago.

Currently there is no shift in the balance of power but such shift is now more of a possibility than it was just a couple of years ago. Either way the current events should be a wake up call to the defeatists like yourself, and it should help you realize that the balance of power doesn't remain static and that it is indeed possible that in the future we will find ourselves in the winning side and be able to actually liberate our lands. All we have to do until then is to maintain our sovereignty rights over the whole island. If natural gas is indeed found in large quantities this will help us to upgrade our position even further (second major upgrade after our entry in EU), making it impossible for the Turks to force us to accept their terms to close (not solve) the Cyprus Problem. And if the Turkish government continues to act in such an arrogant and stupid way it will not be long until it not only alienates Israel but also alienates EU and the USA, at which point the balance of power could indeed change to our favor.

As you always say, and I always agree, it is all about options. The problem is that you always choose the wrong option. I choose the options that are best for Cyprus and best for our cause for liberation, freedom, democracy and prosperity.

[Kikapu]

In Turkey, there are 20 million Kurds. They are a larger minority than the TCs in Cyprus.

BBF sounds quite good, with the correct content.

Kikapu wrote:

BBF now to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles,

But is Turkey willing to accept such a thing. Not likely.

become equal citizens as anyone else in the country without any special privileges given to any one ethnic group

Need to be careful with this......

Will Turkey accept a BBF in Turkey with a Kurdish constituent state? We are practically talking about a racist state of affairs with separate development between 2 "racial" groups, similar to South Africa's Apartheid....But it can work if the land distribution is equitable, and if the Federated State bases itself on EU principles.

If that can't be achieved, then there will not be a solution until something drastic happens which will happen eventually, causing Turkey to withdraw.

There is an agreement on the table for a BBF agreed by the TCs and the GCs in the late 70's, so lets leave Turkey and the Kurds out for a minute. Naturally, BBF will need to be based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International law and the EU Principles, as well as proportionate territorial adjustments based on Cypriot population in each of the states..

A True Federation USA style, I do not see the concerns for Cyprus becoming a "We are practically talking about a racist state of affairs with separate development between 2 "racial" groups, similar to South Africa's Apartheid.."

A True Federation USA style means freedom of movement, and equal political and property rights.

The racist state of affairs is what Turkey is trying to achieve which we can't accept (a la Annan Plan/bbc).

You are "preaching to the choir", I'm afraid.

It means, I agree with you!

[Pyrpolizer]

What is FAIR is not only for the Kypreoi but for the Kibrislis as well.
We should use whatever advantage we might get from gas exploration to push for a FAIR solution for all the Cypriots. It could be a BBF it could be return to the 1960 agreements with adjustments. All settlers not married to Kibrislis should go, even pay them to do so.

If we become arrogant and greedy then we deserve losing half our country to Turkey. And this time it will not be the Kibrislis who fell in the trap, it would be the Kypreoi too.

[Bananiot]

Arrogant and greedy Pyrpolyser? When was the last time you checked on the economic indicators of Cyprus? You do know the Greek proverb, don't you? "We haven't seen him yet and we called him Yiannis". I am scared with this big politics we are trying to engage in. In the past we burned more than our fingers in similar situations and right now I am not sure we have the necessary ability and wisdom to analyse correctly the profound changes in the Middle East and hold on to what is legitimately ours and use it as ameans to bring about peace and prosperity for all Cypriots. Many people here (I say this for the genuinely unsuspecting) simply breath and aspire to see Turkey on the receiving end and they do not give a two pence worth about the TC's who in their eyes are just dirty Turks, like the mainlanders. This attitude will mean the end of all Cypriots and those who come here with all this patriotic jargon are simply working towards this end. They know their job very well. They tried it in 1974, if not themselves, their fathers and grand parents.

[kurupetos]

Bananiot, I can't keep my eyes open after reading your post.

[Nikitas]

Bananiot,

Let us accept the hypthesis that there is not one frop of oil in Aphrodite Block. We are doing it for show, and to satisfy our perverse ego.

The response of Turkey, to threaten, blackmail, subvert this process of exploration for wealth leaves you cold. I have not seen one word of criticism leveled at them. Do you approve of their intimidation against the RoC?

The discovery of wealth in the south can only be intepreted as a negative influence on the settlement process? Why?

How about the alternative rationale, that the discovery of oil, which will be used "equitably" for the benefit of all Cypriots will be a positive influence on the talks? Why is that prejudged to be impossible?

[Piratis]

Arrogant and greedy Pyrpolyser? When was the last time you checked on the economic indicators of Cyprus? You do know the Greek proverb, don't you? "We haven't seen him yet and we called him Yiannis". I am scared with this big politics we are trying to engage in. In the past we burned more than our fingers in similar situations and right now I am not sure we have the necessary ability and wisdom to analyse correctly the profound changes in the Middle East and hold on to what is legitimately ours and use it as ameans to bring about peace and prosperity for all Cypriots. Many people here (I say this for the genuinely unsuspecting) simply breath and aspire to see Turkey on the receiving end and they do not give a two pence worth about the TC's who in their eyes are just dirty Turks, like the mainlanders. This attitude will mean the end of all Cypriots and those who come here with all this patriotic jargon are simply working towards this end. They know their job very well. They tried it in 1974, if not themselves, their fathers and grand parents.

You have more in common with those who conspired to destroy Cyprus in 1974 and who tried again with Annan plan (Turks and DISY) than any other Greek Cypriot in this forum.

As far as natural gas goes, I specifically talked about the potential of such finding and not as a certainty. There is obviously a potential otherwise an American firm would not spend so much money in such an exploration.

What is fair in Cyprus is what is fair in every other normal democratic country. It is neither arrogant nor greedy to want for your own country what is the norm in every other successful democratic country in the world. If some TCs are not satisfied by this and they want more on our expense, then it is them who are arrogant and greedy and not us.

I care about the decent TCs like Kikapu who respects the human and democratic rights of all Cypriots and what I support would definitely be for the benefit of all decent Cypriots, including decent Turkish Cypriots. But I honestly couldn't care less about people who are looking for lame excuses to violate even our most basic human rights and who are trying to divide Cyprus into Greek and Turkish parts by means of ethnic cleansing.