Cyprus-Forum.com

[sadik]

What we should do is to act in ways that will make unification more beneficial for TCs than partition.

This can be done in 2 ways:
1) Make unification as good for them as possible - this is something we have reached our limit. No other minority in the whole world gets what the TCs can get in a united Cyprus.

2) Make partition as bad for them as possible - We are not doing enough for this.

(and do the same for Turkey.)

Piratis, although it seems OK from a logical point of view, what you've put forward does not always work towards your own goal of forcing TCs to accept a solution.

Consider Iraq, and other places on Earth and tell me:
1- Do you think TCs would be less or more fanatical if they were much poorer.
2- Do you think TCs integrated with Europe would be more accepting a solution suitable to the standards of the EU?

Now, I'm not saying that you are completely wrong (from a logical point of view), but things are not as simple as stated above.

We've now come to a point that TC community accept most everything that former GC leaderships demanded and have said "Yes" to the UN plan, which is also a yes to returning land and some GCs returning to the north. And this is a big step because prior Denktas policy was that we don't want any kind of solution with GCs, leave alone returning land and allowing refugees back. Now the will of the people is clear and these things are possible in principle. However, now we see that the GC leadership is making a 180 degree turn away from BBF and towards a Unitary model. Do you think the world will wait and insist for another 30 years, keeping the TCs isolated?

[Harry]

Sadik, we're not trying to keep TC's isolated, thats your own listening to your government and I understand. But as the TC people, I wouldn't be condoning it though, through forums. If shoes were reversed would you allow embargoes to be lifted for GC's. I dont think so, so stop crying foul please, because if we do lift embargoes, there would be nothing left for TC's to negotiate. So you talk about not trusting GC's but you want us to behave the way you want. Take a good whiif of the coffee and wake up please. It's not going to happen the way you want before returning our land.

[sadik]

Sadik, we're not trying to keep TC's isolated, thats your own listening to your government and I understand. But as the TC people, I wouldn't be condoning it though, through forums. If shoes were reversed would you allow embargoes to be lifted for GC's. I dont think so, so stop crying foul please, because if we do lift embargoes, there would be nothing left for TC's to negotiate. So you talk about not trusting GC's but you want us to behave the way you want. Take a good whiif of the coffee and wake up please. It's not going to happen the way you want before returning our land.

Harry, your generic copy&paste comments are not very fitting here, because I neither talk about not trusting the GCs nor I like coffee.

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

I am old enough to know that the only people who filled their pants were the Ellas n tefra "patriots" in 1974 who instead of fighting the turkish army, they were strolling in their jips terrorizing T/C villagers and G/C leftists...

I hope you are not too old to become a lawyer either .

Nonetheless, are you old enough to remember those same leftists who betrayed the EOKA gorillas to the British?? I guess not..if you have any difficulty locating some of them you can ask around in London where most are still residing under the protection of the British Crown!


PS: by leftists you mean "communist wannabes" right!

[Bananiot]

Alexios, if he was a Turk he would have been a Grey Wolf and his nick Turkey or cinders or TURKEY 'H TEFRA. The accent on the H is important otherwise he is insulting Greece but anyway, these patriots have always insulted Greece and have caused much pain with their actions.

Leftists never betrayed the EOKA fighters and any informers must be sought within the ranks of the organisation. The left merely suggested an alternative to the armed struggle that would incorporate the Turkish Cypriots and stood a much better chance of being successful. Thus, Cyprus has been betrayed by those that chose a form of struggle to achieve not independence but enosis that stood no chance of succeeding. It was doomed from day one and as always the scapegoats were easy to find in order to get the blame for the numerous blunders.

[Piratis]

Consider Iraq, and other places on Earth and tell me:
1- Do you think TCs would be less or more fanatical if they were much poorer.

Do you think they would be more or less willing to return to us our land if they couldn't profit much from it and by returning our land they would in return receive things that would be much more profitable for them? (e.g lots more trade, foreign investments, EU financial support etc).
The aim is not to make TCs poor. The aim is to make partition much less profitable than unification.

2- Do you think TCs integrated with Europe would be more accepting a solution suitable to the standards of the EU?

Not if they could bent this standards to favor them. If they could not be part of EU unless they accepted these standards that would be a much better incentive.

We've now come to a point that TC community accept most everything that former GC leaderships demanded

Sadik, you are very wrong about this. Cleredes maybe had finally accepted the Annan plan when it was presented to us in the referendum in a "take it or leave it" way (not before that). However to say that the Annan plan was more or less made by the former GC leaderships is ridiculous.
The Annan plan was made by the Americans to satisfy Turkey and they have totally ignored not only our wishes and demands but even our basic human rights. It was a partition plan and this explains its outcome.

Do you think the world will wait and insist for another 30 years, keeping the TCs isolated?

This depends on the balance of power. If the balance of power was favoring Turkey to that degree, not 30, but not even 1 year they wouldn't wait. However the balance of power does not favor Turkey that much. They can keep northern Cyprus under occupation, but they don't have the power to legitimize their illegal occupation.

If the world cared about anything else apart from the balance of power then they wouldn't allow the violation of the human rights of Greek Cypriots for 30 years. You complain about isolation, and you forget the 200.000 refugees and the illegal occupation. Isolation is the result of the illegality that is caused by Turkey and not us.

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

Alexios, if he was a Turk he would have been a Grey Wolf and his nick Turkey or cinders or TURKEY 'H TEFRA. The accent on the H is important otherwise he is insulting Greece but anyway, these patriots have always insulted Greece and have caused much pain with their actions.

Leftists never betrayed the EOKA fighters and any informers must be sought within the ranks of the organisation. The left merely suggested an alternative to the armed struggle that would incorporate the Turkish Cypriots and stood a much better chance of being successful. Thus, Cyprus has been betrayed by those that chose a form of struggle to achieve not independence but enosis that stood no chance of succeeding. It was doomed from day one and as always the scapegoats were easy to find in order to get the blame for the numerous blunders.

I have met with leftist Cypriots who have betrayed EOKA fighters so that they would ensure a better life for themselves! HAVE U!

[Bananiot]

What did you do to (with) them?

Have you met the guy who betrayed Afxentiou? Was he an Akelite?

P.S. Throughout Greek history, it is never admitted that the Greeks lost a battle or a war because the opponents were better. Always, we look for persons that betrayed the cause and duly we find them and of course they shoulder the blame.

[Othellos]

Have you met the guy who betrayed Afxentiou? Was he an Akelite?

P.S. Throughout Greek history, it is never admitted that the Greeks lost a battle or a war because the opponents were better. Always, we look for persons that betrayed the cause and duly we find them and of course they shoulder the blame.

Are you suggesting, Bananiot, that Afxentiou (for example) was never betrayed?

O.

[Bananiot]

I am suggesting that enough enough. The ease by which people are labeled as traitors is phenomenal. Papadopoulos is following the same instict and has labeled all those that voted "yes" traitors while the learned bishop of Paphos has reserved a place for us in hell since now it is out of fashion to shoot the traitors (we are europeans ...).