Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

So the Cyprus issue not being solved does not really effect normal every day life, we work, eat drink and enjoy our lives in the north.

Viewpoint, how many millions do you receive every year from Turkey? What will happen to you if the Turkish economy crashes because their EU accession will end due to the Cyprus problem? What if additionally the new EU leaders, and in the future even the US leaders, stop favoring you?

Sure, your every day life might not be affected, but by living in an unrecognized pseudo state which is also the puppet state of a 3rd world country you have a very uncertain future.

What you build are castles made of sand.

[Viewpoint]

Maybe its because there are other things going on that theres no time to play with words.
Dont you feel the the GC media are doing everything in their power to brand Talat another Denktas, they are infecting the open minded Gcs who feel Talat is the man who aproaches the the Cyprus issue with a positive attitude and couıld contribute to finding a plan that would be acceptable to both sides?
His call for a meeting with Papadop was again in the papers today but unfortunately the GCs dont want to meet with him. Do you think this is right??

I am not talking about the media! I am talking about Talat himself!
I almost never heard Papadopoullos say anything against Talat on a personal level!

Where do you hear what the 2 leaders say? through the media, so its open to manipulation by the media organ itself before you read or hear whats been said.
The importnant issue is these 2 leaders should be meeting to resolve issues not playing th tit for tat game which gets us absoulutely nowhere, maybe thats whats desired?? we are just no aware of this fact.

[Viewpoint]

So the Cyprus issue not being solved does not really effect normal every day life, we work, eat drink and enjoy our lives in the north.

Viewpoint, how many millions do you receive every year from Turkey? What will happen to you if the Turkish economy crashes because their EU accession will end due to the Cyprus problem? What if additionally the new EU leaders, and in the future even the US leaders, stop favoring you?

Sure, your every day life might not be affected, but by living in an unrecognized pseudo state which is also the puppet state of a 3rd world country you have a very uncertain future.

What you build are castles made of sand.

Will pigs fly??

What if the Souths tourism figures drop and your revenue levels collapse, what if you are unable to enter the Euro zone, what if the north is recognized, there are so many ifs and buts lets just say we have a good life, we live very similarly to yourselves, it could be better but cant it be better for yourselves? or the French English India etc etc What I am trying to say is that if there is no solution is not the end of the world. We TCs have gone through so much hardship that even living in an unrecognized country support by Turkey is heaven in comparrison to living a life in fear for ones life and under the domination of GCs.

[Kifeas]

So the Cyprus issue not being solved does not really effect normal every day life, we work, eat drink and enjoy our lives in the north.

Viewpoint, how many millions do you receive every year from Turkey? What will happen to you if the Turkish economy crashes because their EU accession will end due to the Cyprus problem? What if additionally the new EU leaders, and in the future even the US leaders, stop favoring you?

Sure, your every day life might not be affected, but by living in an unrecognized pseudo state which is also the puppet state of a 3rd world country you have a very uncertain future.

What you build are castles made of sand.

Piratis, we are not interested in a solution that will be the outcome of a compromise on behalf of the TCs due to economic devastation. We are interested in a solution that will be the outcome of a genuine understanding on their behalf of what is fair, sensible, logical and just. We are interested in a solution whose merits and motives will not be opportunistic but instead, will be based on an objective understanding of what the real and universally acknowledged values and principles that constitute the problem are. Only then it will be viable

You cannot for example usurp the properties of other people and then give an excuse for doing it that you do not trust those people to live together or among them. The usurping of other people’s properties is an objective issue or an objective wrongdoing. The lack of trust is a subjective issue.

You cannot seize a part of someone’s homeland and restrict or deny his or her right to have access or to exist in it, claim that it is now yours and only yours new homeland, and then excuse your act by saying that you are afraid not to be dominated by that person or that other group of people that you have excluded. The issue of excluding someone from a part of his homeland and consequently from apart of his historical and cultural heritage is an objective reality. The issue of “being afraid not to be dominated,” is a purely subjective notion.

I agree that trust is a delegate issue and therefore the larger group has to work with the smaller group’s fears and mistrust arguments, provided that the other side is also willing to genuinely work with it’s own fears and worries and not for the opposite. Otherwise, the end result will be a continuing and constant victimization of the un-trusted side by the non-trusting one.

[Viewpoint]

So the Cyprus issue not being solved does not really effect normal every day life, we work, eat drink and enjoy our lives in the north.

Viewpoint, how many millions do you receive every year from Turkey? What will happen to you if the Turkish economy crashes because their EU accession will end due to the Cyprus problem? What if additionally the new EU leaders, and in the future even the US leaders, stop favoring you?

Sure, your every day life might not be affected, but by living in an unrecognized pseudo state which is also the puppet state of a 3rd world country you have a very uncertain future.

What you build are castles made of sand.

Piratis, we are not interested in a solution that will be the outcome of a compromise on behalf of the TCs due to economic devastation. We are interested in a solution that will be the outcome of a genuine understanding on their behalf of what is fair, sensible, logical and just. We are interested in a solution whose merits and motives will not be opportunistic but instead, will be based on an objective understanding of what the real and universally acknowledged values and principles that constitute the problem are. Only then it will be viable

You cannot for example usurp the properties of other people and then give an excuse for doing it that you do not trust those people to live together or among them. The usurping of other people’s properties is an objective issue or an objective wrongdoing. The lack of trust is a subjective issue.

You cannot seize a part of someone’s homeland and restrict or deny his or her right to have access or to exist in it, claim that it is now yours and only yours new homeland, and then excuse your act by saying that you are afraid not to be dominated by that person or that other group of people that you have excluded. The issue of excluding someone from a part of his homeland and consequently from apart of his historical and cultural heritage is an objective reality. The issue of “being afraid not to be dominated,” is a purely subjective notion.

I agree that trust is a delegate issue and therefore the larger group has to work with the smaller group’s fears and mistrust arguments, provided that the other side is also willing to genuinely work with it’s own fears and worries and not for the opposite. Otherwise, the end result will be a continuing and constant victimization of the un-trusted side by the non-trusting one.

At last I can agree with what you are saying, we have to overcome the real TC fear of being dominated by the GC majority both politically and economically, as you say the larger group has to work with the smaller group to elivate the fears and concerns of both communities. Trust is the key to clearing many obsticles raised by both communities but unfortunately we have seen no evidence of bridge building and trust generating steps by either community, the mere fact that they cannot tlak to each other and are trying to score political points in a tit for tat war is a reflection of Cypriot mentality.

[Kifeas]

At last I can agree with what you are saying, we have to overcome the real TC fear of being dominated by the GC majority both politically and economically, as you say the larger group has to work with the smaller group to elivate the fears and concerns of both communities. Trust is the key to clearing many obsticles raised by both communities but unfortunately we have seen no evidence of bridge building and trust generating steps by either community, the mere fact that they cannot tlak to each other and are trying to score political points in a tit for tat war is a reflection of Cypriot mentality.

However, the fears and mistrust of the TCs (or the smallest group) not to become dominated by the larger group, although naturally deserve their merit and consideration, are by definition and to a large extend a subjective issue and should in no case, alone and by themselves, be a reason to violate and to continue deny the legal, human and historical rights of the other group. Neither before, nor after a solution!

I hope you also agree with this one.

[Viewpoint]

At last I can agree with what you are saying, we have to overcome the real TC fear of being dominated by the GC majority both politically and economically, as you say the larger group has to work with the smaller group to elivate the fears and concerns of both communities. Trust is the key to clearing many obsticles raised by both communities but unfortunately we have seen no evidence of bridge building and trust generating steps by either community, the mere fact that they cannot tlak to each other and are trying to score political points in a tit for tat war is a reflection of Cypriot mentality.

However, the fears and mistrust of the TCs (or the smallest group) not to become dominated by the larger group, although naturally deserve their merit and consideration, are by definition and to a large extend a subjective issue and should in no case, alone and by themselves, be a reason to violate and to continue deny the legal, human and historical rights of the other group. Neither before, nor after a solution!

I hope you also agree with this one.

When you consider the fears and concerns of TCs to be subjective and warrant addressing, then surely steps and actions must be take to elivate and elimate this barrier if we wish to naturally resolve issues which you feel violate your legal, historical and human rights. If the first steps are not taken how can we proceed to address other larger issues, where the issue of lack of trust and fears related to past experience will dog all attempts at moving forward towards a mutually agreeable solution.

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

Can we have the European passport back then??

Sure, no problem :wink:

Just as soon as the GC administration declares to the world they do not represent the Turkish Cypriots and that we should all return them immediately.

Even so, I can still see a small amount of droppings filling your pants,
even if you thought about that just for a short amount of time!

[Alexios]

I am old enough to know that the only people who filled their pants were the Ellas n tefra "patriots" in 1974 who instead of fighting the turkish army, they were strolling in their jips terrorizing T/C villagers and G/C leftists...

[Piratis]

We are interested in a solution that will be the outcome of a genuine understanding on their behalf of what is fair, sensible, logical and just.

Kiffeas, I agree with you. However I find it utopian.

In the world we live its all about the balance of power. People as a whole and their leadership will try to get as much as they can. If something is unfair they will simply find some excuses.

Can you honestly say that after all the dicussions we had in here that you still hope that what is needed is to convince TCs that what we are asking for is fair?

The just solution will come when there is respect. And respect will come when both sides will realize that they can not gain on the loss of the other. Today the TCs think that they can gain on our loss. They show no respect. This should change, but unfortunately it can not change with nice words and conversation.

What we should do is to act in ways that will make unification more beneficial for TCs than partition.

This can be done in 2 ways:
1) Make unification as good for them as possible - this is something we have reached our limit. No other minority in the whole world gets what the TCs can get in a united Cyprus.

2) Make partition as bad for them as possible - We are not doing enough for this.

(and do the same for Turkey.)