Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Since Erdogan is willing to talk indirectly, about a possible war with Israel, how do you think it will play out if such a war was to happen?

BigOz on C44 believes Turkey will "wipe off the floor with Israel" (if Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordon were to join Turkey) http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/73133.asp . Perhaps he thinks Turkey can't do it on her own after all. Then again, he thinks Iran has Nuclear weapons to threaten Israel with to counter any threats from Israel, should Israel is forced to take the nuclear option against her enemy/enemies, if she is facing defeat in the unlikely event. Perhaps BigOz knows more about Iran's Nuclear weapons program than the rest of us.

So, which country has the upper hand to win such a war between the two, given the above numbers. I have my own predictions and assessments, but would like to hear yours first.

Here are some figures of each country.

Turkey.jpg

Turkey Military Strength

Turkey Military Strength Detail by the numbers.

PERSONNEL

Total Population: 78,785,548 [2011]
Available Manpower: 41,637,773 [2011]
Fit for Service: 35,005,326 [2011]
Of Military Age: 1,370,407 [2011]
Active Military: 612,900 [2011]
Active Reserve: 429,000 [2011]


LAND ARMY

Total Land Weapons: 69,774
Tanks: 4,246 [2011]
APCs / IFVs: 6,592 [2011]
Towed Artillery: 1,838 [2011]
SPGs: 1,419 [2011]
MLRSs: 559 [2011]
Mortars: 7,574 [2011]
AT Weapons: 47,546 [2011]
AA Weapons: 5,547 [2011]
Logistical Vehicles: 24,906

AIR POWER

Total Aircraft: 1,940 [2011]
Helicopters: 874 [2011]
Serviceable Airports: 99 [2011]

NAVAL POWER

Total Navy Ships: 265
Merchant Marine Strength: 645 [2011]
Major Ports & Terminals: 8
Aircraft Carriers: 0 [2011]
Destroyers: 0 [2011]
Submarines: 16 [2011]
Frigates: 19 [2011]
Patrol Craft: 108 [2011]
Mine Warfare Craft: 20 [2011]
Amphibious Assault Craft: 55 [2011]

GEOGRAPHIC

Waterways: 1,200 km
Coastline: 7,200 km
Square Land Area: 783,562 km
Shared Border: 2,648 km

FINANCIAL (USD)

Defense Budget: $25,000,000,000 [2011]

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country- ... _id=Turkey

Israel.jpg

Israel Military Strength

Israel Military Strength Detail by the numbers.

PERSONNEL

Total Population: 7,473,052 [2011]
Available Manpower: 3,511,190 [2011]
Fit for Service: 2,963,642 [2011]
Of Military Age: 121,722 [2011]
Active Military: 187,000 [2011]
Active Reserve: 565,000 [2011]


LAND ARMY

Total Land Weapons: 12,552
Tanks: 3,230 [2011]
APCs / IFVs: 6,278 [2011]
Towed Artillery: 550 [2011]
SPGs: 706 [2011]
MLRSs: 138 [2011]
Mortars: 750 [2011]
AT Weapons: 900 [2011]
AA Weapons: 200 [2011]
Logistical Vehicles: 7,684

AIR POWER

Total Aircraft: 1,964 [2011]
Helicopters: 689 [2011]
Serviceable Airports: 48 [2011]


NAVAL POWER

Total Navy Ships: 64
Merchant Marine Strength: 10 [2011]
Major Ports & Terminals: 4
Aircraft Carriers: 0 [2011]
Destroyers: 0 [2011]
Submarines: 3 [2011]
Frigates: 0 [2011]
Patrol Craft: 42 [2011]
Mine Warfare Craft: 0 [2011]
Amphibious Assault Craft: 0 [2011]

GEOGRAPHIC

Waterways: 0 km
Coastline: 273 km
Square Land Area: 20,770 km
Shared Border: 1,017 km

FINANCIAL (USD)

Defense Budget: $16,000,000,000

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country- ... _id=Israel

[supporttheunderdog]

It will be a bloody mess whatever happens: a lot of young people will be killed. Some might be happy that the dead are Jews and/or Turks- personally I hope war can be avoided and no-one dies.

[Kikapu]

It will be a bloody mess whatever happens: a lot of young people will be killed. Some might be happy that the dead are Jews and/or Turks- personally I hope war can be avoided and no-one dies.

So what you are saying is, you are not good at playing "War Games" !

[supporttheunderdog]

the American Jewish lobby will be working over-time on the US government and Defence Companies - Turkey may already be getting quiet messages that their supply of US made kit will dry-up: I hope they are also getting the message that any further agressive moves will mean the end of their EU dream. Expect a very strong US reaction if Turkey begins to climb into bed with Syria - prompt addition to the US sanctions and then dollar transactions to / from Turkey begin to stop.

Look for the US 6th Fleet to head East and may be visit Isreal and possibly even the ROC.

If it comes to a fight Numbers are only part of the Story: training and motivation have a lot to do with it.
I expect the Israeli Airforce will probbaly do more damage to the Turkish airforce that Turkey will do to Israel. After that the surface ships merely become targets for the planes.

God help Cyprus because dont rule out Turkish AGression here.

[Kikapu]

Too bad GR isn't here to debate this topic. He is most probably recalled to the CNG for further training!

From my prospective, Israel has the superior upper hand if a head to head war was to break out with Turkey, as long as Israel is in a defensive mode to defend Israel and not on an attack mode attacking Turkey. With the size of Israel and the firepower she possesses as well as past combat experiences, Turkey will be suicidal to attack such a fortified Israel long ways from her shores, and specially if Turkey were to attack first, in which case, NATO will not join in to back Turkey, which may be the reasons as to why Erdogan is trying to provoke Israel to attack Turkey/Turkish military first and also the reason why Israel is refusing to play Erdogan's game by making any threats towards Turkey. But once Turkey attacks any of Israel's interests, then ALL bets are off by Israel and Turkey will find itself abandoned by NATO to fend for herself.

The examples are very clear where the USA has attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and where NATO is in Afghanistan now, but not in Iraq, just because Afghanistan/Taliban/Al Qaeda attacked the USA first and Iraq did not. It is also the reason why Erdogan now claiming that Israel's attack on the Mavi Marmara and killing of 9 Turks was an act of war, to make the claim in his mind anyway, that Israel in fact attacked a NATO member and NATO itself, but in reality, it was not an act of war and Turkey knows it and so does NATO. For one thing, Turks were not singled out from the rest on the ship and killed just because they were Turks. It was more to do with an legal blockade policing by Israel of Gaza endorsed by the UN that went all wrong aboard the Mavi Marmara than a intentional attack on the Mavi Marmara and it's "crew", hence the regret loss of life and offer of compensation by Israel, which Turkey refused to accept. Since Turkey has refused to accept "regret and compensation" offered by Israel as recommended in the Palmer report, then Israel feels like she has meet her obligations to remedy the unfortunate situation that occurred on Mavi Marmara.

All Turkey can do now is a lot of small talk and show a lot bravado against Israel, but in reality, she will not be able to do anything militarily against Israel and walk away as a winner, and if Turkey did attack Israel, it will be the day when Turkey will change forever, and not for the better I may add for the Turks, because if by some miracle Turkey was able to come close to win militarily over Israel, Israel will turn Turkey as a LAST resort into "glass" with her nuclear weapons than become extinct herself. Israel will turn any Arab states too, as a LAST resort, into "glass", if they too try to exterminate Israel, should they join in with Turkey to attack Israel. That would be a huge price to pay by any nation in trying to get rid of Israel. The enemy knows it and so does Israel, that the last "man" standing will be Israel, since the balance of power in the region does favour Israel over her new and old enemies.

[supporttheunderdog]

I am just waiting for Turkey to try to blame Israel for the reported car bomb in Anakara today.

[DTA]

Too bad GR isn't here to debate this topic. He is most probably recalled to the CNG for further training!

From my prospective, Israel has the superior upper hand if a head to head war was to break out with Turkey, as long as Israel is in a defensive mode to defend Israel and not on an attack mode attacking Turkey. With the size of Israel and the firepower she possesses as well as past combat experiences, Turkey will be suicidal to attack such a fortified Israel long ways from her shores, and specially if Turkey were to attack first, in which case, NATO will not join in to back Turkey, which may be the reasons as to why Erdogan is trying to provoke Israel to attack Turkey/Turkish military first and also the reason why Israel is refusing to play Erdogan's game by making any threats towards Turkey. But once Turkey attacks any of Israel's interests, then ALL bets are off by Israel and Turkey will find itself abandoned by NATO to fend for herself.

The examples are very clear where the USA has attacked Afghanistan and Iraq and where NATO is in Afghanistan now, but not in Iraq, just because Afghanistan/Taliban/Al Qaeda attacked the USA first and Iraq did not. It is also the reason why Erdogan now claiming that Israel's attack on the Mavi Marmara and killing of 9 Turks was an act of war, to make the claim in his mind anyway, that Israel in fact attacked a NATO member and NATO itself, but in reality, it was not an act of war and Turkey knows it and so does NATO. For one thing, Turks were not singled out from the rest on the ship and killed just because they were Turks. It was more to do with an legal blockade policing by Israel of Gaza endorsed by the UN that went all wrong aboard the Mavi Marmara than a intentional attack on the Mavi Marmara and it's "crew", hence the regret loss of life and offer of compensation by Israel, which Turkey refused to accept. Since Turkey has refused to accept "regret and compensation" offered by Israel as recommended in the Palmer report, then Israel feels like she has meet her obligations to remedy the unfortunate situation that occurred on Mavi Marmara.

All Turkey can do now is a lot of small talk and show a lot bravado against Israel, but in reality, she will not be able to do anything militarily against Israel and walk away as a winner, and if Turkey did attack Israel, it will be the day when Turkey will change forever, and not for the better I may add for the Turks, because if by some miracle Turkey was able to come close to win militarily over Israel, Israel will turn Turkey as a LAST resort into "glass" with her nuclear weapons than become extinct herself. Israel will turn any Arab states too, as a LAST resort, into "glass", if they too try to exterminate Israel, should they join in with Turkey to attack Israel. That would be a huge price to pay by any nation in trying to get rid of Israel. The enemy knows it and so does Israel, that the last "man" standing will be Israel, since the balance of power in the region does favour Israel over her new and old enemies.

what a suprise Kikapoooo does not favour Turkey, never mind the 500 years of military history that has shown the turks victoious against everyone apart from the Russians (and the turks are the only the nation to have beat them on occassion as well). you want to back Isreal who greatest millitary win is a 6 day war.......... fuck that..... 6 days is barely a battle forget about a war...... and for all you GCs salivating bout a Turkish defeat, lets just say it happens do you think you will walk over to the TRNC?????? your crazy, we held you off for 11 years when our Population was distributed into forced inclaves by you.... you think that you can defeat us when our population is in one place????? you know nothing of the TUrkish Cypriots or the Turk.

[Sotos]

During those 11 years we could have made you all minced meat if we wanted. But we didn't want that. We just wanted to defend ourselves while you were trying to provoke a conflict so that Turkey could come to "save" you so you could partition Cyprus which was your plan all along . But now it is a different story because you are occupying our lands ... and once Turkey is out of the way if you try to keep what you stole from us you will get the punishment that thieves deserve.

[DTA]

During those 11 years we could have made you all minced meat if we wanted. But we didn't want that. We just wanted to defend ourselves while you were trying to provoke a conflict so that Turkey could come to "save" you so you could partition Cyprus which was your plan all along . But now it is a different story because you are occupying our lands ... and once Turkey is out of the way if you try to keep what you stole from us you will get the punishment that thieves deserve.

boring........ you tried to make us minced meat with nightly attack but you couldnt. you think you can now?????????? in your dreams you fascist

[Sotos]

During those 11 years we could have made you all minced meat if we wanted. But we didn't want that. We just wanted to defend ourselves while you were trying to provoke a conflict so that Turkey could come to "save" you so you could partition Cyprus which was your plan all along . But now it is a different story because you are occupying our lands ... and once Turkey is out of the way if you try to keep what you stole from us you will get the punishment that thieves deserve.

boring........ you tried to make us minced meat with nightly attack but you couldnt. you think you can now?????????? in your dreams you fascist

You are the one who supports foreign invasions, ethnic cleansing and all the other crimes that would make Hitler proud of you.... and then you are calling me fascist? When I thought the Turks couldn't get any more similar to the Nazis they started planing for the holocaust of the Jews! Did the Nazis outdone you in the genocides score and you are trying to take the lead again as the best fascists in history?