Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

I've always said that shifts in the balance of power are inevitable. Personally I didn't (and I still don't) think that the Turkish leadership is so stupid to manage to turn the balance of power against them in such a short period of time. However it seems their well known arrogance and greed is rising and that they suffer illusions of a revived Ottoman empire, so this scenario doesn't seem totally impossible.

Here is what I wrote in 2008, before natural gas and when Turkey and Israel were still good friends and nobody could think of a possible way where Turkey would lose the support of the Americans and find herself in the losing side of a regional war.

Also, if war is needed, I never talk about a 1 on 1 war of Cyprus VS Turkey, since no matter how much the balance of power will change Cyprus will never have the power to win such war. I am talking about a bigger regional or world war, like those that are made a couple of times each century or so, where Turkey and Cyprus will be involved. Greece for example won back Rhodes and the Dodecaneese after WWII when Italy which occupied those islands until then, found herself on the loosing side of that war. Again, there are many such examples in our history.

In the future, with Turkey torn between Secularists and Islamists, as well as between Turks and Kurds, I find it very possible for Turkey to find itself in the loosing side of such regional/world war.

I believe that if Islam takes over Turkey and at the same time the Turks remain as arrogant as they are today, plus the fact that you have the much more willing to comply Kurds sitting on a ton of oil, and if you consider the anti-Islam sentiment that keeps rising in Europe and the USA, then many, currently unpredictable by most, things can happen in our region. The change in balance of power that I talk about is not just words. It is something that keeps happening, and will happen again.

This doesn't mean that the events happening this period is the chance we have (or rather "should have") been waiting for, but they showcase how things can change in just a few years that can make possible what before was thought as impossible.

I will repeat what our policy on the Cyprus Problem should be:

1) We should maintain the Republic of Cyprus with sovergnity rights over the whole island. These sovergnity rights might not mean much today, but will mean a lot under a different balance of power.

2) We should continue the negotiations with the Turkish side but without any concessions on principles such as human rights and democracy. If a solution is found then it should be a real solution that will make Cyprus a normal democratic country with equal Cypriot citizens and no racist divisions. A bad solution such as Annan plan is worst than no solution, as not only it will create more problems than the few it could solve, but would make it far harder for us to take advanatge of future changes in the balance of power to liberate the north part of our island.

3) We should help others to keep Turkey out of EU and push her as far from the West as possible and at the same time support the Kurds in their struggle for freedom. A regional conflict is the most possible way of liberating the north part of Cyprus and these two factors are important if we want to be on the winning side.

Of course Cyprus is tiny and our policies alone are not enough to determine the future balance of power. But other factors, such as the fact that most Europeans don't want Turkey in EU, combined with the Turkish arrogance and pride which might not let them accept something less than a full EU membership, might help us achieve our aim eventually.

[B25]

Piratis for Vice President.

Ok, we have a government forming, so far one TC and one GC.

keep it up lads.

And yes, regarding the BoP, I was just thinking about your words yesterday and thought to myself, Piratis had a point all long.

Someone told me (and am yet to get a name) that it was predicted that a major war would break our in the middle east in which Israel and greec would be involved.

The end result was Cyprus survived it and Turkey was wiped from the face of the earth. Well there may be some truth in this after all.
Time will tell.

Just a final point: if anyone doubts the Israelis, big mistake, they don't give 2 sh*ts about anyone and will defend themselves. They have the money, technology, weapons and brains to do it with.

Turkey is making a very big mistake trying it on with Israel.
God helps us all.

[Sotos]

The Turks think that they are some great super power and that they can rule the whole region Israel is not Cyprus and behind Israel is the USA. Let them become more Islamic and let them turn against Israel and if they are so stupid to do this I soon see Turkey turn into another Iraq and Erdogan hanged a la Saddam. The Turks think that they can steal our natural gas like they stole the north part of our country but these barbarians will find their match this time!

[jahitty]

3) We should help others to keep Turkey out of EU and push her as far from the West as possible and at the same time support the Kurds in their struggle for freedom. A regional conflict is the most possible way of liberating the north part of Cyprus and these two factors are important if we want to be on the winning side.

1- Helping to keep Turkey out of the EU is just plain racist and pushing her further into the hands of the Islamists or the (east) or whatever you want to call it is even more idiotic.

2 -So your saying we should encourage a war within the region rather than trying to solve problems through peaceful means?

3- Yes we should support Kurdish freedom whilst at the same time support the freedom and statehood of the Palestinians, However now that the ROC is in bed with Isreal im sure they will forget about their initial principled stance on the matter.

[AlanwithoneL]

Piratis for Vice President.

Ok, we have a government forming, so far one TC and one GC.

keep it up lads.

And yes, regarding the BoP, I was just thinking about your words yesterday and thought to myself, Piratis had a point all long.

Someone told me (and am yet to get a name) that it was predicted that a major war would break our in the middle east in which Israel and greec would be involved.

The end result was Cyprus survived it and Turkey was wiped from the face of the earth. Well there may be some truth in this after all.
Time will tell.

Just a final point: if anyone doubts the Israelis, big mistake, they don't give 2 sh*ts about anyone and will defend themselves. They have the money, technology, weapons and brains to do it with.

Turkey is making a very big mistake trying it on with Israel.
God helps us all.

The only thing that makes sense is your plea for help from up above. Turkey being wiped from the face of the earth? Are you really expecting us to take you seriously by such childish remarks? I'm no great fan of Turkey or its people but an undeniable fact is that Israel alone is the root cause for almost all the unrest in the world, not in their region but on the whole planet. If ever there was a war it is more likely that Israel would be wiped off the face of the earth. Don't you not think that the whole Arab world would like this to happen? Israel may have air supremacy but wars aren't won just in the air.

It would be silly of anyone to wish for war between any two nations, I know the fanatics think different and talk big on their PC's but let me tell you now, if this was to be resolved by war Turkey will unleash hell on Israel and there isn't much that America could do about it. If I was a GC I'd pray for a peaceful resolution to all this rather than war. Be careful for what you wish for.

[jahitty]

well said, a rational voice, although im no great fan of the turkish ruling elites and its allies along with the nutcases running isreal the last thing that would 'solve problems' is war. Like it or not Erdogan is right when he says that Isreal is a spoilt child of the region, however his own government has alot to answer for as well.

[Piratis]

jahitty,

1. Our motives for keeping Turkey out of EU and pushing her away from the West have nothing to do with the race of the Turks but with the fact that Turkey is occupying our lands.

2. The Turks do not want to solve the problems with peaceful means. What is peaceful in invading Cyprus, killing 1000s, ethnically cleansing 100s of thousands and declaring our lands as being supposedly "Turkish"? If Turkey wants peace with Cyprus then she should end the war they started in 1974 by withdrawing her troops from our country and allowing Cyprus to exercise its sovereign rights over the whole island. Then when the war is over, we can sit with the TC community and peacefully discuss the solution of any remaining problems without the blackmail that is currently applied by the Turkish army against us.

3. This is a topic about balance of power, not one about any "principled stance". Unfortunately principles alone can not solve the Cyprus Problem. Turkey is bending every possible principle as it suits them (e.g. demanding one thing for the TCs in Cyprus and the exact opposite for the Kurds in Turkey) making it clear to us that a solution based on principles is not possible. I wish it was different and everybody could have justice and what they deserve, but unfortunately that is not how it works in the real world. While I do care for the Palestinians I obviously care about Cyprus more. (similarly I am sure the Palestinians care more about their own lands than Cyprus and they wouldn’t mind to support Turkey if they believed that doing so would help liberate their lands)

[Piratis]

the last thing that would 'solve problems' is war.

Turkey doesn't seem to agree with you. They invaded Cyprus in 1974 and they continue to maintain the war by maintaining their illegal occupation until today. They also constantly use their troops against the Kurds, destroying 1000s of Kurdish villages, and even invading the Kurds in Iraq. They constantly violate the airspace of Greece with their fighter jets and they constantly issue threats against their neighbors, like the recent threats of sending their navy to prevent Cyprus from extracting natural gas from her own Exclusive Economic Zone.

If Turkey was a peaceful nation then there wouldn't be a Cyprus Problem and we wouldn't be having this discussion now. Unfortunately the Turks are not a peaceful nation which means liberating the north part of our island by peaceful means is not an option.

if this was to be resolved by war Turkey will unleash hell on Israel and there isn't much that America could do about it.

Do you think that Erdogan also thinks like you? I wish he does!

[AlanwithoneL]

the last thing that would 'solve problems' is war.

Turkey doesn't seem to agree with you. They invaded Cyprus in 1974 and they continue to maintain the war by maintaining their illegal occupation until today. They also constantly use their troops against the Kurds, destroying 1000s of Kurdish villages, and even invading the Kurds in Iraq. They constantly violate the airspace of Greece with their fighter jets and they constantly issue threats against their neighbors, like the recent threats of sending their navy to prevent Cyprus from extracting natural gas from her own Exclusive Economic Zone.

If Turkey was a peaceful nation then there wouldn't be a Cyprus Problem and we wouldn't be having this discussion now. Unfortunately the Turks are not a peaceful nation which means liberating the north part of our island by peaceful means is not an option.

if this was to be resolved by war Turkey will unleash hell on Israel and there isn't much that America could do about it.

Do you think that Erdogan also thinks like you? I wish he does!

With due respect, Turkey is in Cyprus as a result of the GC's attempt to ethnically cleanse the TC"s. I find id very strange that the year most significant to the problems, 1963, is never mentioned by GC's, is this some kind brainwashing within your education system? 1974 keeps popping up never is there reference made to 1963. As I said I'm not a great fan of Turkey or its policy in regards with the Kurds. One undeniable fact is that each and every TC is forever grateful for Turkeys intervention and prevention of our extermination by our GC neighbours.

Please bear in mind, the TC's have a share in the natural resources found within Cyprus waters. I think you'll find USA endorses this.

[supporttheunderdog]

I agree with you that the events of 1963 are too-often overlooked but the 1974 invasion was not due to any attempt at ethnic cleansing but the ostensible cause was the attempt at Enosis through the 1974 Coup, and the unwillingness of Turkey to allow its old western enemy, Greece, get a substantial foothold that would eneable Greece to impose a stranglehold on the Southern coast of Turkey - as I think a senior Turkish politician said Turkey would have invaded even if there were no Turkish Speaking Cypriots.

I dont think the Greek Colonels who sponsored the coup - which Big Mak called an Invasion- gave a toss about the Cypriots - they had their own Agenda and probably wanted , if not needed, a grand gesture - an expansion of Greece.

The only rights the Kibrilisi can have to the riches off the Southerbn coast of the ROC is as a constituent part of a post settlement Cypriot state: if they claim to be an independent state (rather than the illegal psuedo puppet state formed out of continuing illegal occuptaion that it is) then as their EEZ does not extend there they can f*ck off!