Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Any way so the Turks suddenly invaded for no reason?

Their reasons were their own geo-strategic interests. The coup was merely a cheap excuse.

Now using your own logic that makes the supposedly innocent Greeks the dupes if not the willing accomplices of whoever the Judeo Anglos may be since the Turks would not have had the excuse to invade without the Greek "invasion"

At that time Greece was ruled by the Generals of the Athens Junta who were anything but innocent and were indeed controlled by CIA who helped them to get and maintain power to ensure that Greece would not fall in the eastern block.

heavy Greek Influence in Cyprus would not be tolerated by Turkey

The Turks are trying to de-Hellenize our island for centuries. So what? Does it mean that we should give up our freedoms just because the Turks can not tolerate us exercising our rights over our own island? If that was the case then we shouldn't have united with EU either, because the Turks had claimed that they wouldn't tolerate such thing. And now we should stop all efforts for exploring for natural gas in our EEZ, because Turkey can not tolerate this. I am sorry, but we are not going to be hostage of the desires of Turkey. We will do what we want with our own island, and if the Turks respond in an aggressive way that will always be 100% their fault, and not ours.

I repeat my thesis that under Greek rule, Cyprus would have become an unimportant economic backwater, consisting mostly of agriculture and tourism, with little manufacturing industry or finance based economic organisations

Cyprus would be at the very least like Crete, and probably in a better position as Cyprus is bigger and more populous (Nicosia is the 3rd biggest Greek city after Athens and Salonica). A true independence would obviously be better, but not the pseudo independence that was forced on us in 1960, with foreign "guarantors", foreign troops, foreign judges of the Supreme Court etc etc. That was a joke of an "independence".

[Pyrpolizer]

Back to the main topic, is there indeed a shift in the balance of powers right now? Will there be one in the near future? Will it shift in our favor, and how will we get rid of Turkey, without a regional war coming up?
Will we still be interested for a solution after we get gas out?

[akiner]

When it comes to shifting the Balance of Power, i guess you picked the right point Piratis,

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Balance of Power is truly shifting, but you are miscalculating the very fundamental fact that is for the which side it is shifting...
Like it or not we are dominating the region for almost 1000 years under the names of different states, and till there will be a true Arabic Union by all means " which takes another 1000 years" we will continue dominating the region for our own interests.

Let's get used to it, and continue living in peace and harmony...

[supporttheunderdog]

Any way so the Turks suddenly invaded for no reason?

Their reasons were their own geo-strategic interests. The coup was merely a cheap excuse.

My point exactly, but who gave them the cheap excuse? The Greek Colonels and the Cypriots who fought for them in the coup,

Now using your own logic that makes the supposedly innocent Greeks the dupes if not the willing accomplices of whoever the Judeo Anglos may be since the Turks would not have had the excuse to invade without the Greek "invasion"

At that time Greece was ruled by the Generals of the Athens Junta who were anything but innocent and were indeed controlled by CIA who helped them to get and maintain power to ensure that Greece would not fall in the eastern block.

Agreed the Junta in Greece was not innocent.Note I used the word "supposedly". It is just that too many Cypriot Pan hellenists are unwilling to accpet that and are in denial about giving the Turks the excuse: indded they are denialabout the whole period 1960=74 (i particular 1963-onwards, when there very active moves to promote Enosis through the first evil A plan, - the Akritas plan. Just as the Yanks did not want Greece to fall into the Eastern Block they probably had concerns about Cyprus too, hance they were quite willing to see Cyprus divided between three Nato Allies, nameley Greece, Turkey and the Brits with the SBA.at least one of whom might have given them base space. win win for them but then great powers fi]oreign policy has never been particularly altrustic or moral but always driven by self interest. I doubt Greek Junta Policy on Cyprus was altruistic or Moral, but as mostly driven by thier own Geo-strategic interests. It wasnt even altrustic or Moral what they did to Greeks in Greece.

In that respect Cyprus has always been a victim of balance of power politics for pr0bably over 3000 years - plus ca change- plus le meme.

heavy Greek Influence in Cyprus would not be tolerated by Turkey

The Turks are trying to de-Hellenize our island for centuries. So what? Does it mean that we should give up our freedoms just because the Turks can not tolerate us exercising our rights over our own island? If that was the case then we shouldn't have united with EU either, because the Turks had claimed that they wouldn't tolerate such thing. And now we should stop all efforts for exploring for natural gas in our EEZ, because Turkey can not tolerate this. I am sorry, but we are not going to be hostage of the desires of Turkey. We will do what we want with our own island, and if the Turks respond in an aggressive way that will always be 100% their fault, and not ours.

This the curse of Pan hellenism and the call for Enosis which survived independance, and left Turkey with the excuse it needed:to maintain the Takists: even as late as 67 Big Mak was still calling for Enosis, but perhaps the rule of the Colonels made him see that under them he and the Cypriots would be nothing. I otherwise agree that Cyprus does in its EEZ is its own affair and the Turks should f'^ck off.

I repeat my thesis that under Greek rule, Cyprus would have become an unimportant economic backwater, consisting mostly of agriculture and tourism, with little manufacturing industry or finance based economic organisations

Cyprus would be at the very least like Crete, and probably in a better position as Cyprus is bigger and more populous (Nicosia is the 3rd biggest Greek city after Athens and Salonica). A true independence would obviously be better, but not the pseudo independence that was forced on us in 1960, with foreign "guarantors", foreign troops, foreign judges of the Supreme Court etc etc. That was a joke of an "independence".

Crete'e economy is mostly Agriculture and Tourism abd I suspect Crete suffers from loss of younger people who decide that agriculture or tourism are not for them - as I said would be the case for Cyprus in the event of Enosis. Lefkosia is probably only as big as it is today because it is a capital which has a large amount of Industry, Financial Services/Commerce and of course the Government - take away the Headquaters of the banks etc and the government jobs (many of which would be done from Athens) and what would be left? Nicosia could end up smalller than Iraklion. .

[Piratis]

When it comes to shifting the Balance of Power, i guess you picked the right point Piratis,

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Balance of Power is truly shifting, but you are miscalculating the very fundamental fact that is for the which side it is shifting...
Like it or not we are dominating the region for almost 1000 years under the names of different states, and till there will be a true Arabic Union by all means " which takes another 1000 years" we will continue dominating the region for our own interests.

Let's get used to it, and continue living in peace and harmony...

The only thing that Turkey can dominate are tiny countries like Cyprus, beyond that you are only capable of farting. Try to actually dominate the whole region, and not only you will not manage to do this but as a result you will lose half of Turkey to a newly founded Kurdish state.

[kurupetos]

Turkey without external aid and support is weaker than Libya.

[Piratis]

This the curse of Pan hellenism

What do you mean by "Pan hellenism"? The whole wolrd becoming Greek? The whole universe? Or are you maybe talking about territories which have Greek population now and for 1000s of years being part of a unified Greek state? If thats is what you are refering to, then what is so bad about it? How can the UK, which is made by several different ethnic entities, be a single country, while the Greeks having a single country encompasing their whole nation is supposdedly a "curse"? A curse for whom? Not a curse for us but obviously a curse for some others, whose interests would be threatened by a unified and strong Greek nation, and who commited every imaginable crime in order to prevent us from exercising our rights over our own lands.

Cyprus had a larger population than Crete even before 1960, and if we had union with Greece back then instead of the pseudo independence and the problems that it caused which resulted in the death of 1000s and the emigration of 10s of thousands, the population of Cyprus today would have been even bigger.

[Nikitas]

Remember how Davut came on the scene with lots of praise for his superior intellect and preached "zero problems" with all of Turkey's neighbors and in the same breath told us about neo ottomanism whereby Turkey would seek to re-establish its influence over its former empire?

Anyone with half ounce brain should have foreseen the inherent contradiction in the above. Almost all former ottoman subjects rebelled against the occupiers: Arabs, Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians, the list goes on. How on earth Davut imagined that he could establish influence over cultures that fought the ottomans is his own problem. How this could be done while extinguishing all problems with neighbors is the puzzle.

Reading his theories on the above and his views on strategic depth it was obvious that the man is a victim of his own arrogance. Several Turkish mainstream newspapers spotted the contradiction and carried articles about "depth of confusion". But the Turkish islamist elite was seduced by the bullshit and made Davut foreign minister. Since then he has managed to alienate Israel, the EU, the US, Russia and most of the neighbors in less than a year. He is now planning to complete the task by trying to capitalise on the Arab Spring. Obviously he knows zilch about Arabs. He has not asked them what they think about Turks. He should.

The balance of power is shifting not because of anything others are doing, but because Turkey is managing to foul up all on its own. More power to them!

[akiner]

When it comes to shifting the Balance of Power, i guess you picked the right point Piratis,

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Balance of Power is truly shifting, but you are miscalculating the very fundamental fact that is for the which side it is shifting...
Like it or not we are dominating the region for almost 1000 years under the names of different states, and till there will be a true Arabic Union by all means " which takes another 1000 years" we will continue dominating the region for our own interests.

Let's get used to it, and continue living in peace and harmony...

The only thing that Turkey can dominate are tiny countries like Cyprus, beyond that you are only capable of farting. Try to actually dominate the whole region, and not only you will not manage to do this but as a result you will lose half of Turkey to a newly founded Kurdish state.

Hopefully mainstream Kurds are still feeling themselves as an integral part of the Republic, otherwise they would already manage to take their part of the country with %18 percent of total population. I am saying 18 percent, reminds you anything?!!?

On the other hand, Half of the population in Turkey (including my ancestors) were the people busted out of Balkans, Crimea, Adyghe and rest of the empire in bag and baggage... Those people paid the price of being "a Turk" and as you can guess we are nothing left to lose!!

I am not dreaming to take back the vineyard,dairy and farm in Alushta that Ukrainians stole from my family. I would suggest you to do samething about the United Cyprus fairy-tale.

[CBBB]

When it comes to shifting the Balance of Power, i guess you picked the right point Piratis,

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Balance of Power is truly shifting, but you are miscalculating the very fundamental fact that is for the which side it is shifting...
Like it or not we are dominating the region for almost 1000 years under the names of different states, and till there will be a true Arabic Union by all means " which takes another 1000 years" we will continue dominating the region for our own interests.

Let's get used to it, and continue living in peace and harmony...

The only thing that Turkey can dominate are tiny countries like Cyprus, beyond that you are only capable of farting. Try to actually dominate the whole region, and not only you will not manage to do this but as a result you will lose half of Turkey to a newly founded Kurdish state.

Hopefully mainstream Kurds are still feeling themselves as an integral part of the Republic, otherwise they would already manage to take their part of the country with %18 percent of total population. I am saying 18 percent, reminds you anything?!!?

On the other hand, Half of the population in Turkey (including my ancestors) were the people busted out of Balkans, Crimea, Adyghe and rest of the empire in bag and baggage... Those people paid the price of being "a Turk" and as you can guess we are nothing left to lose!!

I am not dreaming to take back the vineyard,dairy and farm in Alushta that Ukrainians stole from my family. I would suggest you to do samething about the United Cyprus fairy-tale.

What are you on about?