Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

SO the areas where the army bases are located? or all the houses where TCs and settlers live and where there has been development?

I didn't say that TCs should move out from their own homes. They will keep their homes and take their properties in the south as well. (if they want to sell their properties in the south to buy more property in the north thats their choice).

When I say that land will be given back I mean that the Turkish army should gradually stop using force to disallow RoC to apply its sovereignty over the island.

[Main_Source]

We do not trust you one inch, if only we could but you or your administration display no characteristics that would allow us to move in that direction.

does this include the 6,000 people who travel to the free areas everyday to work? or the people who use the free healthcare offered by the RoC to TC?

[Main_Source]

dont know about straws but your (GCs) constant demand for the army to leave before any sort of agreement is reached fuels this genuine fear which you so flipantly toss to one side giving credence to possible vendeta repraisal against TCs which your venomous posts against TCs displays you personally seem possible of carrying out. There is more ways of getting rid of a population than putting a gun to their heads (maybe u will use those stored in your homes) you should know GCs have lots of experience and so far on this forum the mindset you guys display is no different from that of the 1960s. We do not trust you one inch, if only we could but you or your administration display no characteristics that would allow us to move in that direction.

Damn, you thwarted our plan to send our crack squad of military trained hypnotisers that were supposed to hypnotise TC to become Christian...all in the space of one night!! Your real good VP!

[Viewpoint]

We do not trust you one inch, if only we could but you or your administration display no characteristics that would allow us to move in that direction.

does this include the 6,000 people who travel to the free areas everyday to work? or the people who use the free healthcare offered by the RoC to TC?

The majority of TCs do not trust GCs or their administration one inch, why dont you go out and ask those workers Im sure you will be suprised at their answers. The political gain milked by you administration regarding workers, health care and passports far outwieghs its cost. You constantly declare to the world that you represent us, so to prove this you have to be tollerant on these issues otherwise your claims would be totally unfounded.

[Viewpoint]

SO the areas where the army bases are located? or all the houses where TCs and settlers live and where there has been development?

I didn't say that TCs should move out from their own homes. They will keep their homes and take their properties in the south as well. (if they want to sell their properties in the south to buy more property in the north thats their choice).

When I say that land will be given back I mean that the Turkish army should gradually stop using force to disallow RoC to apply its sovereignty over the island.

So the "RoC" should have control over the North of Cyprus? and the Turkish Army should just up and leave to allow this? are you crazy? what have we been saying for the last 31 years we do not want to live under GC administration, the "RoC" is a GC administration.
I am all for the army leaving as well and I understand your fears but this is like saying get rid of your protector so I can bully you as I wish. But what we are saying is I will get rid of him once I feel safe, stronger and that I can trust you, ensuring that you will be unable to bully and push me around as you wish. Do yo understand? The outsome is the same they will leave us but I have ot be 100% certain that you do not intend use any means to harm the TC community.

[BirKibrisli]

The solution should include a transitional period. (long one if needed)

This transitional period will allow things to happen gradually. GCs will not get their land from one day to the next, and TCs will not get full trade from one day to the next.

When all land is returned then all "embargoes" will be lifted. This way both sides will have a motive to move more quickly from the transitional period and reach the final aim which is one united Cyprus.

If we can not agree on solution from now, then we could agree that if lets say TCs return a part of land, they get a part of trade. If they want more trade, they should return more land and so on.

Viewpoint,what is wrong with what Piratis is proposing?
I think it will work,and probably the only strategy that will work.
We have to move out of our entrenched positions,one step at a time.
What is wrong with Turkey pulling say 10,000 troops out of Cyprus as a goodwill gesture?Don't you think 30,000 Turkish troops armed to the teeth
are not enought to protect you?Then maybe some of the sanctions can be lifted,some cross trade begins,trust starts to grow.Then another 10,000 troops can go...what is wrong with this approach?

As to the property belonging to GCs in the North,of course people should get back every inch of their land (or proper compensation if they choose)
don't you agree?I always try not to use emotive words when arguing political points but do we want a state build on stolen property?Can we base a just and lawful state on land taken from its legitimate owners by force?And please don't give me a historical lesson as to how the Turkish Army came to be on the island.I know,I was there. But we have to move on.Times are different now.Cyprus is in the EU.Soon Turkey might be there as well.I would be ashamed to return to a TRNC built on other people's land.Aren't you?

[Viewpoint]

The solution should include a transitional period. (long one if needed)

This transitional period will allow things to happen gradually. GCs will not get their land from one day to the next, and TCs will not get full trade from one day to the next.

When all land is returned then all "embargoes" will be lifted. This way both sides will have a motive to move more quickly from the transitional period and reach the final aim which is one united Cyprus.

If we can not agree on solution from now, then we could agree that if lets say TCs return a part of land, they get a part of trade. If they want more trade, they should return more land and so on.

Viewpoint,what is wrong with what Piratis is proposing?
I think it will work,and probably the only strategy that will work.
We have to move out of our entrenched positions,one step at a time.
What is wrong with Turkey pulling say 10,000 troops out of Cyprus as a goodwill gesture?Don't you think 30,000 Turkish troops armed to the teeth
are not enought to protect you?Then maybe some of the sanctions can be lifted,some cross trade begins,trust starts to grow.Then another 10,000 troops can go...what is wrong with this approach?

As to the property belonging to GCs in the North,of course people should get back every inch of their land (or proper compensation if they choose)
don't you agree?I always try not to use emotive words when arguing political points but do we want a state build on stolen property?Can we base a just and lawful state on land taken from its legitimate owners by force?And please don't give me a historical lesson as to how the Turkish Army came to be on the island.I know,I was there. But we have to move on.Times are different now.Cyprus is in the EU.Soon Turkey might be there as well.I would be ashamed to return to a TRNC built on other people's land.Aren't you?

I do not disagree with what Piratis is saying what I was trying to find out is what land would be return he said all occupied land I was trying to determine whether all occupied land could be returned, then Piratis said the Turkish army should allow the "RoC" soverignty over the North. Are you OK with this?, the Turkish Army leaves and the GC administration obtain soverignty of the whole island. A gradual removal of the TArmy I am all for and if I had the power I would order 10.000 troops out tomorrow as a goodwill gesture but to get rid of the whole army and give the "RoC" GC administration soverignty I have a problem with, as we would be at the mercy of GC administration. If there was an acceptable new political formation where we would be represented then I would see no problem with the Turkish army leaving.

[Main_Source]

So VP, 6,000 TC are going to the south to work even though they do not trust there bosses...lol. Is this what your telling me?

[Viewpoint]

TCs that work in the south are cheap labour and they know their place, TRUST cannot be bought, although they work for GCs they dont have to trust them, some TC get on with their bosses some hate them because they belittle them but TRUST is another matter if you can not understand the difference thats your problem.

Why do you find it so difficult to understand that we do not trust or want to live under GC administration if that was the case then a large portion of the TC population would have moved south to TRUST that the "RoC" would represent their best interests. This of course is a reflection on GC mindset does this upset you at all? do you think it shoudl upset you that your Turkish Cypriot brothers would rather live under what you call the regime in the north rather that the Greek Cypriot run South Cyprus.

[Piratis]

So the "RoC" should have control over the North of Cyprus? and the Turkish Army should just up and leave to allow this? are you crazy? what have we been saying for the last 31 years we do not want to live under GC administration, the "RoC" is a GC administration.

The RoC as agreed in 1960 not only it is not a "GC administration" but it gives to the 18% TC minority powers that no other minority of equivalent size has. During this transitional period TCs will gradually get their rights and powers in RoC and by the end of it they will have the 100% of what belongs to them.

At the end of this transitional period of course I expect the Turkish army to leave (except maybe from those 650 soldiers as per the 1960 agreements) and I expect the end result to be one country with sovereignty over the whole island. If this does not happen this mean that no real unification happened, which means there was no solution.

The 1960 agreements is the only legal thing and the only thing we have agreed. During this transitional period we can change these agreements if both communities agree. For this to happen it means that the changes should be balanced. In order to get something more you have to give something equivalent as a return.

I know you would prefer to force us to capitulate and take a lot more than the 1960 agreements and give to us a lot a lot less, but this will not happen.