Cyprus-Forum.com

[sadik]

I appeal to sensible people in this forum not to pay attention to nationalistic nonsense.Besides, whether we are of anatolian,european or african descent is really not important.Lets not give food to these people.

Alexios, I agree that race does not matter. But I don't see how you can interpret what I wrote as nationalistic or food for nationalistic people at best.

[Kifeas]

I don't think intermarriages were non-existent in the British era, but it was quickly covered up in most cases by either bride or the groom converting to the other religion and changing his/her name. Do you remember the story of the TC who found out that her mother was actually a GC only after seeing his RoC birth certificate. Up to that point, even her children did not know that she was a GC. I personally know several TCs who have a GC grandparent.

I actual said “almost non-existent.” I am sure you will agree that the 50 or 60 or even 100 such cases among the several tens of thousands of marriages that occurred in Cyprus during the recent history of Cyprus from the British and onwards, do not constitute an “existing” phenomenon.

Not necessarily, it's also possible that the smaller group has taken so much from the larger that it becomes indistinguishable from the large group genetically.

Perhaps it might be possible, but that would require that the smaller group would only intermarry with the larger group to a very large extent and intermarry among itself to a much lesser extent. However, this was not the case in Cyprus, even during the Ottoman years.

Also, the Cypriots in general and people of Anatolia are not that far off either. Cypriots look like people of some parts of Anatolia, due to proximity of the two areas and contact throughout the history. Therefore, it does not take that many generations of intermarriages for the two to be exactly the same.

I agree with this, especially if you are going to compare them with other people from more distant places around the globe. However, the research, if it is correct, showed that there are some marked genetical differences between Cypriots and Anatolian people, something that was not so much the case between Cypriots of the two communities.

What I am saying is that the fact that pre-ottoman Cypriots already had some genetical influence by the people of the Middle East and Anatolia, perhaps as much of an influence as they might have had from the side of the mainland Greek peninsula, and the fact that there was some intermarriage between them and those people that came from Anatolia during the Ottomans, would have played a role in the genetical similarity of the two communities nowadays. However, my belief is that the biggest role in this similarity would have been played by the fact that there were significant religious conversions of pre-existing Cypriots, due to reasons other than marriage, which after intermarrying with the Anatolian Moslem people that came in Cyprus during the Ottomans, have contributed to the make up of the TC community to resemble so closely with the GC community.

Our difference here is that although I do not deny the validity of the factors that you mentioned and which contributed to this similarity, you seem to deny or rule out my argument that another equally important factor would have been the religious conversions of pre-ottoman Christian Cypriots which adopted the Moslem faith and consequently were incorporated and contributed to the make up of the TC community. I am sure you must be aware of the term “Linobambaki” or “cotton-linen” which was used to describe such people.

I want to make one last reminder here. I am personally contributing to this particular discussion from a purely academic /historical /scientific perspective and interest. I do not want to imply anything to anyone regarding the political and /or cultural identity dimension that such a discussion might tempt some others to expand into. Each one has the right to self-identify their self in the way they believe describes them better or more accurately, and this, at least by me, is fully respected.

[Alexios]

I appeal to sensible people in this forum not to pay attention to nationalistic nonsense.Besides, whether we are of anatolian,european or african descent is really not important.Lets not give food to these people.

Alexios, I agree that race does not matter. But I don't see how you can interpret what I wrote as nationalistic or food for nationalistic people at best.

What you wrote makes perfect sense.What i meant is that if we keep replying to these people, we continue a discussion thats really not worth having on its own for any reason, let alone that it should never be an issue when discussing the Cyprus problem.I say "should" because in a nationalists mind, blood,race,origin etc are of paramount importance.Lets not give the impression that we go along with that even if we are simply trying to prove the opposite. In a nutshell,what i am saying is simply ignore these nonsense.)

[Kifeas]

I appeal to sensible people in this forum not to pay attention to nationalistic nonsense.Besides, whether we are of anatolian,european or african descent is really not important.Lets not give food to these people.

Alexios, I agree that race does not matter. But I don't see how you can interpret what I wrote as nationalistic or food for nationalistic people at best.

What you wrote makes perfect sense.What i meant is that if we keep replying to these people, we continue a discussion thats really not worth having on its own for any reason, let alone that it should never be an issue when discussing the Cyprus problem.I say "should" because in a nationalists mind, blood,race,origin etc are of paramount importance.Lets not give the impression that we go along with that even if we are simply trying to prove the opposite. In a nutshell,what i am saying is simply ignore these nonsense.)

I suppose it is my turn to ask Alexios the same question that Sadik asked him above. If Sadik is not the one who says nationalist nonsense, and I agree, then by elimination I am the only one left out of the two that he previously quoted.

[sadik]

Our difference here is that although I do not deny the validity of the factors that you mentioned and which contributed to this similarity, you seem to deny or rule out my argument that another equally important factor would have been the religious conversions of pre-ottoman Christian Cypriots which adopted the Moslem faith and consequently were incorporated and contributed to the make up of the TC community.

I do not deny it. I agree that conversions is one of the contributing factors.

Regards...

[Alexios]

I appeal to sensible people in this forum not to pay attention to nationalistic nonsense.Besides, whether we are of anatolian,european or african descent is really not important.Lets not give food to these people.

Alexios, I agree that race does not matter. But I don't see how you can interpret what I wrote as nationalistic or food for nationalistic people at best.

What you wrote makes perfect sense.What i meant is that if we keep replying to these people, we continue a discussion thats really not worth having on its own for any reason, let alone that it should never be an issue when discussing the Cyprus problem.I say "should" because in a nationalists mind, blood,race,origin etc are of paramount importance.Lets not give the impression that we go along with that even if we are simply trying to prove the opposite. In a nutshell,what i am saying is simply ignore these nonsense.)

I suppose it is my turn to ask Alexios the same question that Sadik asked him above. If Sadik is not the one who says nationalist nonsense, and I agree, then by elimination I am the only one left out of the two that he previously quoted.

I feel the need to apologise to Kifeas.Please accept what i have written so far as a general view.

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

I strongly disagree with the view that we look alike. We do have some similarities, but that is due to the fact that we are sharing the same weather for generations.

Other than that our basic features are not the same, and in most instances they are no where near as the same!

Additionaly, it is of vital importance that thousands of T/C's have "mixed" their bloodlines significantly with Turkish settlers from the mainland, and please dont tell me that we also look like them.

You sound just like a Turkish Grey wolf...
Even if all this nonsense you write was the truth what difference does it make?? sorry i forgot, you are probably of arian race and anyone who deasnt look like you must necessarily be inferior....

Your post is based solely on several assumptions made on your behalf about my beliefs and ideals and does not necessarily reflect the truth. The theme of the topic was about racial characteristics and similarities, I did not bring it up, nor did I create it.

Perhaps you are one of the many Cypriots who look like they are from Syria or Iraq, but keep in mind that we dont all look the same and that some of us do fit perfectly with the stereotype and the characteristics that defined the infamous Aryan Race. Dont blame me if you look like an Arab.

[Alexios]

I strongly disagree with the view that we look alike. We do have some similarities, but that is due to the fact that we are sharing the same weather for generations.

Other than that our basic features are not the same, and in most instances they are no where near as the same!

Additionaly, it is of vital importance that thousands of T/C's have "mixed" their bloodlines significantly with Turkish settlers from the mainland, and please dont tell me that we also look like them.

You sound just like a Turkish Grey wolf...
Even if all this nonsense you write was the truth what difference does it make?? sorry i forgot, you are probably of arian race and anyone who deasnt look like you must necessarily be inferior....

Your post is based solely on several assumptions made on your behalf about my beliefs and ideals and does not necessarily reflect the truth. The theme of the topic was about racial characteristics and similarities, I did not bring it up, nor did I create it.

Perhaps you are one of the many Cypriots who look like they are from Syria or Iraq, but keep in mind that we dont all look the same and that some of us do fit perfectly with the stereotype and the characteristics that defined the infamous Aryan Race. Dont blame me if you look like an Arab.

You see, even if you are only concerned with racial characteristics and similarities, style and manner of writing brings uou clearly that you look down on certain people,be it if only because for how they look...Which is a naive kind of nationalism but still just as stupid..Now whether i look like an Arab, maybe i do.Does that make me a lesser Cypriot than an arian like you??:))

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

I strongly disagree with the view that we look alike. We do have some similarities, but that is due to the fact that we are sharing the same weather for generations.

Other than that our basic features are not the same, and in most instances they are no where near as the same!

Additionaly, it is of vital importance that thousands of T/C's have "mixed" their bloodlines significantly with Turkish settlers from the mainland, and please dont tell me that we also look like them.

You sound just like a Turkish Grey wolf...
Even if all this nonsense you write was the truth what difference does it make?? sorry i forgot, you are probably of arian race and anyone who deasnt look like you must necessarily be inferior....

Your post is based solely on several assumptions made on your behalf about my beliefs and ideals and does not necessarily reflect the truth. The theme of the topic was about racial characteristics and similarities, I did not bring it up, nor did I create it.

Perhaps you are one of the many Cypriots who look like they are from Syria or Iraq, but keep in mind that we dont all look the same and that some of us do fit perfectly with the stereotype and the characteristics that defined the infamous Aryan Race. Dont blame me if you look like an Arab.

You see, even if you are only concerned with racial characteristics and similarities, style and manner of writing brings uou clearly that you look down on certain people,be it if only because for how they look...Which is a naive kind of nationalism but still just as stupid..Now whether i look like an Arab, maybe i do.Does that make me a lesser Cypriot than an arian like you??:))

What makes you "a lesser Cypriot" or even a human being at that, is the fact that you have so wrongfully accused me of being "just like a Grey Wolf" simply because I expressed my view upon the subject. From there on you even continued by calling me "stupid".

Having said that, all of your accusations fail to conceal the fact that you purposefully "attacked" me on the basis of certain assumptions you made about me. The bottomline is that you havent really got a strong counterargument for what I said and if there is someone who behaves in a similar manner as a Grey Wolf would have, that someone is you.

[Alexios]

I repeat.Even if i accept that we dont look alike.What difference does it make ???? Unless you are arguing purely from an anthropological point of view..which reading through your posts doesnt seem to be the case...