Cyprus-Forum.com

[Khan]

Khan, can you explain to me in which way the GCs suppressed the TC’s identity? Have the GCs ever forced the TCs not to speak their language and /or religion or have they ever deprived them in one way or another from their right to call themselves TCs? Can you explain to me what relationship does an academic discussion has, or what I said above regarding the genetically similarity of the two communities with the issue of suppressing anyone’s identity?

Furthermore, can you explain to me what in essence means to be a Turk? Is it a cultural identity description or a national identity (citizenship description,) or it is also a matter of a genetically separate and distinct race of people?
What is your opinion? If you know!

I dont recall saying GC supressed TC identity. I was just saying that this particular theses is nothing new, and has been used before to deny the existence of Turks, either in Bulgaria, Greece or Cyprus.

As for what it is to be a Turk, it is no different than any other nationality. The common factors in a national identity are shared language, culture, history and myth. Genetics alone doesn't create a sense of who you are, I was born in the UK to Turkish Cypriot parents, many English people have said to me that since i was born in the UK i am English. But i have always felt Turkish.

Whether there is a Cypriot identity is not so straightforward, GC and TC dont have the same languge, history or myth, though some of our culture is the same. By myth, i mean the identity you create for yourself through your race's past exploits i.e for Turks you have the wolf, the Ottoman Empire, Ataturk etc. For GC you have Plato, Aristotle, Byzantium etc. For Cypriots we do not have any shared myth which we can relate to as a sense of common identity.

[Greekmaniac]

Khan, can you explain to me in which way the GCs suppressed the TC’s identity? Have the GCs ever forced the TCs not to speak their language and /or religion or have they ever deprived them in one way or another from their right to call themselves TCs? Can you explain to me what relationship does an academic discussion has, or what I said above regarding the genetically similarity of the two communities with the issue of suppressing anyone’s identity?

Furthermore, can you explain to me what in essence means to be a Turk? Is it a cultural identity description or a national identity (citizenship description,) or it is also a matter of a genetically separate and distinct race of people?
What is your opinion? If you know!

I dont recall saying GC supressed TC identity. I was just saying that this particular theses is nothing new, and has been used before to deny the existence of Turks, either in Bulgaria, Greece or Cyprus.

As for what it is to be a Turk, it is no different than any other nationality. The common factors in a national identity are shared language, culture, history and myth. Genetics alone doesn't create a sense of who you are, I was born in the UK to Turkish Cypriot parents, many English people have said to me that since i was born in the UK i am English. But i have always felt Turkish.

Whether there is a Cypriot identity is not so straightforward, GC and TC dont have the same languge, history or myth, though some of our culture is the same. By myth, i mean the identity you create for yourself through your race's past exploits i.e for Turks you have the wolf, the Ottoman Empire, Ataturk etc. For GC you have Plato, Aristotle, Byzantium etc. For Cypriots we do not have any shared myth which we can relate to as a sense of common identity.

there you go no that is a well written answer i totally agree.

[Main_Source]

I dont recall saying GC supressed TC identity. I was just saying that this particular theses is nothing new, and has been used before to deny the existence of Turks, either in Bulgaria, Greece or Cyprus.

So you dont think it is strange that GC and TC look so similar?

I've seen GC and TC look the spitting image of eachother before.

[Khan]

I dont recall saying GC supressed TC identity. I was just saying that this particular theses is nothing new, and has been used before to deny the existence of Turks, either in Bulgaria, Greece or Cyprus.

So you dont think it is strange that GC and TC look so similar?

I've seen GC and TC look the spitting image of eachother before.

No more strange than Spanish, Italian, Portuguese or Iranians look Turkish.

[Main_Source]

You Turks look like Spanish, Italian, Portugese or Iranian. Remember you came from the plains of central asia and original had semi oriental features.

[ELLAS H TEFRA!]

I strongly disagree with the view that we look alike. We do have some similarities, but that is due to the fact that we are sharing the same weather for generations.

Other than that our basic features are not the same, and in most instances they are no where near as the same!

Additionaly, it is of vital importance that thousands of T/C's have "mixed" their bloodlines significantly with Turkish settlers from the mainland, and please dont tell me that we also look like them.

[Alexios]

I strongly disagree with the view that we look alike. We do have some similarities, but that is due to the fact that we are sharing the same weather for generations.

Other than that our basic features are not the same, and in most instances they are no where near as the same!

Additionaly, it is of vital importance that thousands of T/C's have "mixed" their bloodlines significantly with Turkish settlers from the mainland, and please dont tell me that we also look like them.

You sound just like a Turkish Grey wolf...
Even if all this nonsense you write was the truth what difference does it make?? sorry i forgot, you are probably of arian race and anyone who deasnt look like you must necessarily be inferior....

[cypezokyli]

nationalism as we know it today is not older than 200 years old.

on which nation one belongs today is simply a matter of luck and war.

tradition is not (and never was) black and white despite the huge efforts of our states. the most obvious example are always the people of the borders.
after the destruction of old multicultural empires like the austrohungarian or the ottoman the people in the borders suffered the most.
do you honestly think that two villages 5km apart on the greek bulgarian border have (or at least had) less thinks in common than we (gc) have with that village that happenned to fall on the greek state?
or do u think that gc and tc have less in common than a greek village in northern thrace?

i ve been dancing traditional dances for more than 15 years now. i ve been to northern thrace close to the turkish-bulgarian border. the people there speak a kind of greek - turkish-bulgarian dialect. they have tha same dances and instruments as bulgarians. in germany we also danced together with bgs. if u move more west u will listen to instruments like the one brekovic is using. or go the ionian islands and u will be surprised that their dances and music sound really italian. our traditional dances by the way have a turkish name (karcilamas).

the people on the borders just happened that they are greeks or bulgarians. if the line was drawn a little bit upper or lower they could have accepted another nation.

then, especially after the 1900s the ideas of nationalism became stronger and stronger. as a result nations and nationalism were formed. how were they achived? by forcing a common language through, at the expence of dialects. education. by exchange of populations. by killing (just like 1.5 million bulgarians that used to live in greek macedonia, either dissapeared or became greeks, exactly the same ways were used by attaturk to create the turkish nation.)

thats all about the pure tradition and culture.

(by the way i ve heard that some years ago tc dancers were punished bc the presented cypriot dances wearing the cypriot vraka (which is black) instead of the turkish one (which is blue))

[sadik]

Hello Sadik, I also wonder why TCs become somewhat offended when they are confronted with an allegation that perhaps they might originate from the same stock of people as the GCs. Are the GCs a sort of an inferior race or people? (joke!)

Kifeas, I'm not offended in any way. I do think that GCs and TCs are very closely related. As a matter of fact, all the Turkish speaking people in the religion originate from the ancient peoples of the region, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, etc. Original Turks are from Central Asia, and Central Asians do not look anything like us. On the other hand we are very much alike with our neighbouring nations. So somehow, central asians who were indeed very few in numbers, managed to impose their language to a large number of people living in the region. This phenomenon is not specific to Turks and is very common in the history of nations.

Intermarriages were more acceptable and possible during those years, in comparison to their almost non-existence during the British colonization period and up to this day, but again by all accounts that I came across, they weren’t a significantly major (common) phenomenon.

I don't think intermarriages were non-existent in the British era, but it was quickly covered up in most cases by either bride or the groom converting to the other religion and changing his/her name. Do you remember the story of the TC who found out that her mother was actually a GC only after seeing his RoC birth certificate. Up to that point, even her children did not know that she was a GC. I personally know several TCs who have a GC grandparent.

The theory that constant and substantial intermarriages between the pre-existing Cypriots and the people that came in from Anatolia or other places after the Ottomans, is not a sound one at all, for the simple reason that in order for two non similar genetically groups of people to emerge into a genetically similar group and still retain their separate cultural identities (religion, language, etc,) it requires an almost equal number of people from the two groups, which would only continually and constantly intermarry for the 300 years (a relatively small period of time) so that the two groups will emerge almost identical, genetically.

Not necessarily, it's also possible that the smaller group has taken so much from the larger that it becomes indistinguishable from the large group genetically.

Also, the Cypriots in general and people of Anatolia are not that far off either. Cypriots look like people of some parts of Anatolia, due to proximity of the two areas and contact throughout the history. Therefore, it does not take that many generations of intermarriages for the two to be exactly the same.

[Alexios]

Hello Sadik, I also wonder why TCs become somewhat offended when they are confronted with an allegation that perhaps they might originate from the same stock of people as the GCs. Are the GCs a sort of an inferior race or people? (joke!)

Kifeas, I'm not offended in any way. I do think that GCs and TCs are very closely related. As a matter of fact, all the Turkish speaking people in the religion originate from the ancient peoples of the region, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, etc. Original Turks are from Central Asia, and Central Asians do not look anything like us. On the other hand we are very much alike with our neighbouring nations. So somehow, central asians who were indeed very few in numbers, managed to impose their language to a large number of people living in the region. This phenomenon is not specific to Turks and is very common in the history of nations.

Intermarriages were more acceptable and possible during those years, in comparison to their almost non-existence during the British colonization period and up to this day, but again by all accounts that I came across, they weren’t a significantly major (common) phenomenon.

I don't think intermarriages were non-existent in the British era, but it was quickly covered up in most cases by either bride or the groom converting to the other religion and changing his/her name. Do you remember the story of the TC who found out that her mother was actually a GC only after seeing his RoC birth certificate. Up to that point, even her children did not know that she was a GC. I personally know several TCs who have a GC grandparent.

The theory that constant and substantial intermarriages between the pre-existing Cypriots and the people that came in from Anatolia or other places after the Ottomans, is not a sound one at all, for the simple reason that in order for two non similar genetically groups of people to emerge into a genetically similar group and still retain their separate cultural identities (religion, language, etc,) it requires an almost equal number of people from the two groups, which would only continually and constantly intermarry for the 300 years (a relatively small period of time) so that the two groups will emerge almost identical, genetically.

Not necessarily, it's also possible that the smaller group has taken so much from the larger that it becomes indistinguishable from the large group genetically.

Also, the Cypriots in general and people of Anatolia are not that far off either. Cypriots look like people of some parts of Anatolia, due to proximity of the two areas and contact throughout the history. Therefore, it does not take that many generations of intermarriages for the two to be exactly the same.

I appeal to sensible people in this forum not to pay attention to nationalistic nonsense.Besides, whether we are of anatolian,european or african descent is really not important.Lets not give food to these people.