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Greekmaniac

I like to refer to the 1923 treaty which Turkey signed that they have no claim to Cyprus , the problem was Turkey should have taken all of you back to the mainland.

This attitude does not even warrant a response, your name sums you up "maniac"....

[sadik]

I like to refer to the 1923 treaty which Turkey signed that they have no claim to Cyprus , the problem was Turkey should have taken all of you back to the mainland.

Many TCs went to Turkey at that time, but they mostly came back afterwards. Cyprus is our country and our hearts are in Cyprus. Neither Turkey nor fanatic GCs can change that...

[sadik]

The GC thesis has always been that the majority of TCs are from the same stock of Cypriot people that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire and which has adopted the Moslem faith, mainly to avoid the heavy taxations that were imposed on the Christian population by the Ottomans. It is no wonder that entire villages, especially in the Pafos area and not only, used to speak only Greek even up to 1974 and simultaneously very few if none of them knew Turkish, even though the time the Ottomans left Cyprus is not too far back in time. What do you think about these GC claims?

Hi Kifeas, I've always wondered why GCs bother to create theories about the origins of the TCs.

After 1578, we know for a fact that some people from central Anatolia, especially Alavites who were under constant rebellion and were making trouble for the Ottomans, were forced to move to Cyprus. They were mostly from Karaman area, maybe we are relative s with PM Karamanlis as well. Some craftsman were also forced to move to Cyprus because there weren't enough left in Cyprus. We also know that some Latins converted to Islam initially . There also were some conversions on a smaller scale throught the years. Intermarriages were more common than we now think, so this has also contributed to the "common gene pool".

[Khan]

The GC thesis has always been that the majority of TCs are from the same stock of Cypriot people that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire and which has adopted the Moslem faith, mainly to avoid the heavy taxations that were imposed on the Christian population by the Ottomans. It is no wonder that entire villages, especially in the Pafos area and not only, used to speak only Greek even up to 1974 and simultaneously very few if none of them knew Turkish, even though the time the Ottomans left Cyprus is not too far back in time. What do you think about these GC claims?

The Bulgarians used the same excuse when they tried to supress the Bulgar Turks identity (i.e. they are Bulgarians forced to convert to Islam in Ottoman times). Also Greece use the same excuse for its Turkish minority, still referring to them as Muslims instead of Turks.

Besides, its historically documented that there was a huge influx of Anatolians to Cyprus on the Sultans orders. It was the standard procedure to revitalise war stricken economies.

[Greekmaniac]

Greekmaniac

I like to refer to the 1923 treaty which Turkey signed that they have no claim to Cyprus , the problem was Turkey should have taken all of you back to the mainland.

This attitude does not even warrant a response, your name sums you up "maniac"....

How can you respond as usual you are taking the easy way out, if you cant answer a response to your own statements than just talk into a mirror and listen to yourself talk.

[Greekmaniac]

The GC thesis has always been that the majority of TCs are from the same stock of Cypriot people that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire and which has adopted the Moslem faith, mainly to avoid the heavy taxations that were imposed on the Christian population by the Ottomans. It is no wonder that entire villages, especially in the Pafos area and not only, used to speak only Greek even up to 1974 and simultaneously very few if none of them knew Turkish, even though the time the Ottomans left Cyprus is not too far back in time. What do you think about these GC claims?

The Bulgarians used the same excuse when they tried to supress the Bulgar Turks identity (i.e. they are Bulgarians forced to convert to Islam in Ottoman times). Also Greece use the same excuse for its Turkish minority, still referring to them as Muslims instead of Turks.

Besides, its historically documented that there was a huge influx of Anatolians to Cyprus on the Sultans orders. It was the standard procedure to revitalise war stricken economies.

Khan that is one guys opinion , I dont think were from the same gene pool or do I ever want to be.

[Kifeas]

The GC thesis has always been that the majority of TCs are from the same stock of Cypriot people that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire and which has adopted the Moslem faith, mainly to avoid the heavy taxations that were imposed on the Christian population by the Ottomans. It is no wonder that entire villages, especially in the Pafos area and not only, used to speak only Greek even up to 1974 and simultaneously very few if none of them knew Turkish, even though the time the Ottomans left Cyprus is not too far back in time. What do you think about these GC claims?

Hi Kifeas, I've always wondered why GCs bother to create theories about the origins of the TCs.

After 1578, we know for a fact that some people from central Anatolia, especially Alavites who were under constant rebellion and were making trouble for the Ottomans, were forced to move to Cyprus. They were mostly from Karaman area, maybe we are relative s with PM Karamanlis as well. Some craftsman were also forced to move to Cyprus because there weren't enough left in Cyprus. We also know that some Latins converted to Islam initially . There also were some conversions on a smaller scale throught the years. Intermarriages were more common than we now think, so this has also contributed to the "common gene pool".

Hello Sadik, I also wonder why TCs become somewhat offended when they are confronted with an allegation that perhaps they might originate from the same stock of people as the GCs. Are the GCs a sort of an inferior race or people? (joke!)

It is a historical fact that a number of people from Anatolia were transferred by the Ottomans in Cyprus, mainly craftsmen, in order to satisfy a need for such people in Cyprus and also people that as you said, were trouble makers in Anatolia. This happened at the beginning of the Ottoman conquer and the number was around 10-15 thousand people, according to various sources (pls correct me if I am wrong.)

It is also a fact that some of the Latins (the majority left,) that decided to remain in Cyprus after the Ottomans, were converted to Islam (some of them remained Christians.) These people were not very many in numbers and if I remember correctly from some sources, shouldn’t have been more than 3-4 thousands.

It is also a fact that during the entire period of the 300 years of that the Ottoman Empire lasted in Cyprus, people that took posts in the upper ranks of the Ottoman administration in Cyprus, as well as in the ottoman army garrisons, decided to stay permanently in Cyprus and either brought in their families or they created new families in Cyprus. I never came across figures regarding how many such people came and stayed in Cyprus, but taking into consideration the small size of the place and the life quality and economic potential of Cyprus during the Ottoman years, which were very bad in comparison to other places within the empire, I wouldn’t suspect great many numbers.

Intermarriages were more acceptable and possible during those years, in comparison to their almost non-existence during the British colonization period and up to this day, but again by all accounts that I came across, they weren’t a significantly major (common) phenomenon.

It is also a fact that a lot of those high ranking people in the Ottoman administration and the army, have left Cyprus and moved back to Anatolia and other places of the ottoman empire, in the imitate years following the end of the ottoman rule. The number of these people was substantially high and if I am not mistaken it reduced the ration of Turkish/Moslem population in Cyprus from 25% down to 19-20% of the total population. This suggests that those people did not have any deep origin roots in Cyprus and their presence here was mainly related to the maintenance of the Ottoman administration, in one way or another. Once the ottoman rule ended, they went along with it back to their places of origin. If we accept this as a logical explanation, then the question that needs to be answered is why after 300 years of Ottoman rule in Cyprus there was a need to bring in relatively fresh people from other places in order to maintain the Ottoman rule. If every time there was a need for such a people in Cyprus, people were brought in (imported) from Anatolia and then remained permanently on the island, after 300 years of rule there should have been an Ottoman elite created and established in Cyprus that by itself would have been enough to supply the administration with trustworthy service men. However, this elite would have had some deeper roots and relationship with Cyprus and consequently they wouldn’t have felt the need to abandon their country in such great numbers, immediately after the end of the Ottoman rule. My explanation is that those engaged with the ottoman administration in Cyprus, at least the majority, were somewhat transient in nature, i.e would come here and serve for a number of years and then return back to their places of origin. Of course some of them would have stayed here permanently, but not the majority.

If these are the only sources that contributed to the appearance of the TC community in Cyprus, then they are not enough at all to explain such a genetically close similarity between the two communities.

The theory that constant and substantial intermarriages between the pre-existing Cypriots and the people that came in from Anatolia or other places after the Ottomans, is not a sound one at all, for the simple reason that in order for two non similar genetically groups of people to emerge into a genetically similar group and still retain their separate cultural identities (religion, language, etc,) it requires an almost equal number of people from the two groups, which would only continually and constantly intermarry for the 300 years (a relatively small period of time) so that the two groups will emerge almost identical, genetically. Furthermore, the size of the two cultural different groups would have emerged the same at best (almost 50:50.) Alternatively, the size of the TC community would have been bigger than the size of the GC community, simply because it was more favorable to be a Moslem under the ottoman rule than to be a Christian, and we do have accounts of conversions mainly because of this favorable status that a Moslem would have enjoyed but no accounts to the other way. Naturally, the majority of off springs from all such constant intermarriages would have chosen to follow the Moslem faith and not the other way around.

PS: The name Karamallis of the PM of Greece derives from the Turkish word “Kara” which means black and the Greek word “Malli” which means hair. Karamallis means black-haired man, Like Karagiozis or karagioz means black-eyed man.

[Kifeas]

The GC thesis has always been that the majority of TCs are from the same stock of Cypriot people that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire and which has adopted the Moslem faith, mainly to avoid the heavy taxations that were imposed on the Christian population by the Ottomans. It is no wonder that entire villages, especially in the Pafos area and not only, used to speak only Greek even up to 1974 and simultaneously very few if none of them knew Turkish, even though the time the Ottomans left Cyprus is not too far back in time. What do you think about these GC claims?

The Bulgarians used the same excuse when they tried to supress the Bulgar Turks identity (i.e. they are Bulgarians forced to convert to Islam in Ottoman times). Also Greece use the same excuse for its Turkish minority, still referring to them as Muslims instead of Turks.

Besides, its historically documented that there was a huge influx of Anatolians to Cyprus on the Sultans orders. It was the standard procedure to revitalise war stricken economies.

Khan, can you explain to me in which way the GCs suppressed the TC’s identity? Have the GCs ever forced the TCs not to speak their language and /or religion or have they ever deprived them in one way or another from their right to call themselves TCs? Can you explain to me what relationship does an academic discussion has, or what I said above regarding the genetically similarity of the two communities with the issue of suppressing anyone’s identity?

Furthermore, can you explain to me what in essence means to be a Turk? Is it a cultural identity description or a national identity (citizenship description,) or it is also a matter of a genetically separate and distinct race of people?
What is your opinion? If you know!

[Kifeas]

The GC thesis has always been that the majority of TCs are from the same stock of Cypriot people that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire and which has adopted the Moslem faith, mainly to avoid the heavy taxations that were imposed on the Christian population by the Ottomans. It is no wonder that entire villages, especially in the Pafos area and not only, used to speak only Greek even up to 1974 and simultaneously very few if none of them knew Turkish, even though the time the Ottomans left Cyprus is not too far back in time. What do you think about these GC claims?

The Bulgarians used the same excuse when they tried to supress the Bulgar Turks identity (i.e. they are Bulgarians forced to convert to Islam in Ottoman times). Also Greece use the same excuse for its Turkish minority, still referring to them as Muslims instead of Turks.

Besides, its historically documented that there was a huge influx of Anatolians to Cyprus on the Sultans orders. It was the standard procedure to revitalise war stricken economies.

Khan that is one guys opinion , I dont think were from the same gene pool or do I ever want to be.

Relax greekmaniac! If you have anything meaningful to contribute here other than empty slogans, which I have seen plenty from you, then do it, otherwise do us a favor. ….

[Greekmaniac]

The GC thesis has always been that the majority of TCs are from the same stock of Cypriot people that pre-existed the Ottoman Empire and which has adopted the Moslem faith, mainly to avoid the heavy taxations that were imposed on the Christian population by the Ottomans. It is no wonder that entire villages, especially in the Pafos area and not only, used to speak only Greek even up to 1974 and simultaneously very few if none of them knew Turkish, even though the time the Ottomans left Cyprus is not too far back in time. What do you think about these GC claims?

The Bulgarians used the same excuse when they tried to supress the Bulgar Turks identity (i.e. they are Bulgarians forced to convert to Islam in Ottoman times). Also Greece use the same excuse for its Turkish minority, still referring to them as Muslims instead of Turks.

Besides, its historically documented that there was a huge influx of Anatolians to Cyprus on the Sultans orders. It was the standard procedure to revitalise war stricken economies.

Khan that is one guys opinion , I dont think were from the same gene pool or do I ever want to be.

Relax greekmaniac! If you have anything meaningful to contribute here other than empty slogans, which I have seen plenty from you, then do it, otherwise do us a favor. ….

the crap you write is of no help to anyone but the enemy, remember they still occupy 38% of the island.